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Stop using a Mac. I still run Windows 95 apps on Windows 11 without issue.

by arsome 2y ago

userbinator 2y ago
Truth. The only other Big Tech company better at consistent breakage is Google. MS is known for its legendary backwards-compatibility, although sadly is also going in the same direction as the others.
- worthless-trash 2y ago
  What direction is its backwards compatability going ?
  - tastyfreeze 2y ago
    Worse. Windows 10 dropped 16-bit application support.
    - userbinator 2y ago
      You mean Windows 11, since it has no 32-bit version - Windows 10 32-bit still supports 16-bit apps: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/ntvdm-and-16-bit-app-support https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/ntvd...
    - bugbuddy 2y ago
      My first thought was “what’s a 16-bit app?” That tells you my age range.
      - creshal 2y ago
        Good(?) news: Even ten years from now, you'll find machine tools and other industrial applications running 16 bit software in prod.
    - BoomerMoment 2y ago
      You mean a 64bit architecture literally cannot handle an 8bit instruction as its smallest register is 16bit without swapping modes? This is an architectural problem not an OS constraint. And they're completely correct to abandon this software in my honest opinion as the developers already have. If you need this run a 32bit VM under the 64bit OS so the virtualised CPUs can handle the 16bit application.
      - userbinator 2y ago
        You mean a 64bit architecture literally cannot handle an 8bit instruction as its smallest register is 16bit without swapping modes? Where did you get that piece of misinformation from? 64-bit x86 can handle 64, 32, 16, and 8-bit data just fine, and its instructions are still byte-aligned. Also, the decision to remove 16-bit support from 64-bit Windows was entirely political. NTVDMx64 adds it back.
        BoomerMoment 2y ago
        After further reading, yes I am wrong! Thanks
        worthless-trash 2y ago
        I believe Intel is working on an arch change to drop 32 bit entirely in an upcoming architecture.
fiddlerwoaroof 2y ago
It depends on the app: windows vista wouldn’t run various versions Delphi that ran just fine on a Mac with WINE
bruce511 2y ago
Hah, you'll get down voted to oblivion on HN for recommending Windows over Mac. But broadly speaking you are right. I run software today on Windows 11 that I first acquired in the 90s. Some of it console based that run under the command prompt. While Windows is justly famous for backward compatibility though, there are some exceptions. Firstly 16 bit programs don't run on 64 bit Windows. (Well, unless I fire up a 32 bit Windows in a VM.) This is not a train smash for me, although I did have to replace some -really- old programs. Secondly, games. MS removed a cdrom driver which a lot of my old games used for copy protection. I'll need to dual boot those into win 7 if I wanted to play them. But the urge to even bother only strikes about once a year. Regarding word processors, I used Word Perfect in the DOS days and Word since then, and everything still opens fine. Obviously everyone's path is different, and their experience is different, but if long-term commitment to running existing, and past, software matters to you the maybe select an OS that prioritizes that over one that very much does not.
- steve1977 2y ago
  > if long-term commitment to running existing, and past, software matters to you the maybe select an OS that prioritizes that over one that very much does not. I guess that's the downside of vertical integration where the OS is basically just a means to sell hardware.
- p_l 2y ago
  AFAIK there's Wine-based solution for win16 on 64 bit windows, which might be of interest for those wanting to run 16bit apps. And DOSBox iirc can run windows 3.x if necessary
  - neckro23 2y ago
    > AFAIK there's Wine-based solution for win16 on 64 bit windows winevdm: https://mendelson.org/otvdm.html https://mendelson.org/otvdm.html
BoomerMoment 2y ago
[flagged]
- jeffreygoesto 2y ago
  Almost. Innovative means "using new methods". It does not mean "destroy old". SCNR https://xkcd.com/386/ https://xkcd.com/386/
  - BoomerMoment 2y ago
    Since you've already ignored the obvious humour. Break: interrupt (a sequence, course, or continuous state). "this broke the pattern of generations remaining in the place where they were born" Innovative: (of a product, idea, etc.) featuring new methods; advanced and original. "innovative designs Ever modified a product to implement a new original advanced method that didn't interrupt a single existing mechanism or structure? If so, I wish I had your codebase! Refer to your own link.

Stop using a Mac. I still run Windows 95 apps on Windows 11 without issue.

by arsome 2y ago

Stop using a Mac. I still run Windows 95 apps on Windows 11 without issue.

Truth. The only other Big Tech company better at consistent breakage is Google. MS is known for its legendary backwards-compatibility, although sadly is also going in the same direction as the others.

worthless-trash 2y ago
What direction is its backwards compatability going ?
- tastyfreeze 2y ago
  Worse. Windows 10 dropped 16-bit application support.
  - userbinator 2y ago
    You mean Windows 11, since it has no 32-bit version - Windows 10 32-bit still supports 16-bit apps: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/ntvdm-and-16-bit-app-support https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/ntvd...
  - bugbuddy 2y ago
    My first thought was “what’s a 16-bit app?” That tells you my age range.
    - creshal 2y ago
      Good(?) news: Even ten years from now, you'll find machine tools and other industrial applications running 16 bit software in prod.
  - BoomerMoment 2y ago
    You mean a 64bit architecture literally cannot handle an 8bit instruction as its smallest register is 16bit without swapping modes? This is an architectural problem not an OS constraint. And they're completely correct to abandon this software in my honest opinion as the developers already have. If you need this run a 32bit VM under the 64bit OS so the virtualised CPUs can handle the 16bit application.
    - userbinator 2y ago
      You mean a 64bit architecture literally cannot handle an 8bit instruction as its smallest register is 16bit without swapping modes? Where did you get that piece of misinformation from? 64-bit x86 can handle 64, 32, 16, and 8-bit data just fine, and its instructions are still byte-aligned. Also, the decision to remove 16-bit support from 64-bit Windows was entirely political. NTVDMx64 adds it back.
      - BoomerMoment 2y ago
        After further reading, yes I am wrong! Thanks
        worthless-trash 2y ago
        I believe Intel is working on an arch change to drop 32 bit entirely in an upcoming architecture.

fiddlerwoaroof 2y ago

It depends on the app: windows vista wouldn’t run various versions Delphi that ran just fine on a Mac with WINE

bruce511 2y ago

Hah, you'll get down voted to oblivion on HN for recommending Windows over Mac. But broadly speaking you are right. I run software today on Windows 11 that I first acquired in the 90s. Some of it console based that run under the command prompt. While Windows is justly famous for backward compatibility though, there are some exceptions. Firstly 16 bit programs don't run on 64 bit Windows. (Well, unless I fire up a 32 bit Windows in a VM.) This is not a train smash for me, although I did have to replace some -really- old programs. Secondly, games. MS removed a cdrom driver which a lot of my old games used for copy protection. I'll need to dual boot those into win 7 if I wanted to play them. But the urge to even bother only strikes about once a year. Regarding word processors, I used Word Perfect in the DOS days and Word since then, and everything still opens fine. Obviously everyone's path is different, and their experience is different, but if long-term commitment to running existing, and past, software matters to you the maybe select an OS that prioritizes that over one that very much does not.

steve1977 2y ago
> if long-term commitment to running existing, and past, software matters to you the maybe select an OS that prioritizes that over one that very much does not. I guess that's the downside of vertical integration where the OS is basically just a means to sell hardware.
p_l 2y ago
AFAIK there's Wine-based solution for win16 on 64 bit windows, which might be of interest for those wanting to run 16bit apps. And DOSBox iirc can run windows 3.x if necessary
- neckro23 2y ago
  > AFAIK there's Wine-based solution for win16 on 64 bit windows winevdm: https://mendelson.org/otvdm.html https://mendelson.org/otvdm.html

BoomerMoment 2y ago

[flagged]

jeffreygoesto 2y ago
Almost. Innovative means "using new methods". It does not mean "destroy old". SCNR https://xkcd.com/386/ https://xkcd.com/386/
- BoomerMoment 2y ago
  Since you've already ignored the obvious humour. Break: interrupt (a sequence, course, or continuous state). "this broke the pattern of generations remaining in the place where they were born" Innovative: (of a product, idea, etc.) featuring new methods; advanced and original. "innovative designs Ever modified a product to implement a new original advanced method that didn't interrupt a single existing mechanism or structure? If so, I wish I had your codebase! Refer to your own link.