4 ms·

Having used the UK/US type self checkout machines while travelling, I must say it is so nice to live in Northern Europe where the self checkout machines are lar

Having used the UK/US type self checkout machines while travelling, I must say it is so nice to live in Northern Europe where the self checkout machines are largely just based on trust, with randomly sampling ~five items of every 100 shoppers. There is no weighing at any of the stores. If you don't get randomly selected for inspection, there is nothing stopping you from just walking out with groceries you didn't pay for worth a hundred dollars easy. People just don't. Another benefit of having a proper social safety net I guess.

dambi0 3y ago
A lot of the waiting is for age restricted items or machine errors rather than trust issues. I have never once been randomly sampled after self surface purchase in either the UK/US.
- DangitBobby 3y ago
  Without trust issues there would be no machine errors in my experience. Anytime there's an issue it's because I'm scanning too fast for the machine and it can't figure out how the weights work. Or I selected the wrong type of garlic and only the associate is allowed to remove items (why would you not let me remove items I personally added??).
  - dambi0 3y ago
    Fair, the inability to remove your own items seems maybe a hang-up from an older view of privileged cashiers. The store I currently use doesn’t have weight checks except for weighed produce. You can leave your stuff in the cart and with the wireless scanner and a bit of forethought everything can stay in there. Different trust models makes things interesting. I have never been checked leaving the store and I don’t think social safety net or otherwise is the driving factor
    - saalweachter 3y ago
      Yeah, the not being able to remove items grinds my gears. It's especially annoying when I am waving an item furiously, trying to get the poorly printed barcode to scan, and when it finally accepts it, it double scans the item. Then when I have to stand there waiting for someone to remove the item is usually where I get disgusted with the process and give up on shopping, especially when it happens multiple times.
- Muromec 3y ago
  It’s definitely trust issues here in the Netherlands. Buying something for under 5 euro bucks in a shop where middle school kids buy their lunches is almost guaranteed check. More than one in three times. A different shop and a bigger amount — checks almost never
robertlagrant 3y ago
> Another benefit of having a proper social safety net I guess. I doubt it's as simple as this. People don't only steal because they could technically afford things. Just as people don't only kill in self defence.
- ScoobleDoodle 3y ago
  Social safety net is more than just being able to afford it. It's a combination of not being able to afford it and general erosion of social values leading to "take what you can get away with" mentality. So even those that can afford it will still try to get more since it's everyone for themselves. Instead of cooperation under a system with a social safety net, we get a game theoretic weighting on defection without a social safety net.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    > Social safety net is more than just being able to afford it. It's a combination of not being able to afford it and general erosion of social values leading to "take what you can get away with" mentality. There's a causal arrow in the other direction, IMHO: People like to believe in the 'law of the jungle' mentality and thus vote to cut the safety net. IME it's especially wealthy people for whom it's a kind of game, not trauma, deprivation (of education, health care, food, housing, safety) and survival, and who also get to pay lower taxes, Didn't Jamie Dimon talk about how he liked how 'animal spirits' have been awakened?
    - doktrin 3y ago
      A lot of house cats walking around imagining themselves to be lions.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    > Instead of cooperation under a system with a social safety net, we get a game theoretic weighting on defection without a social safety net. There is a safety net. Here's how I'd describe the situation: There will be a number of people, fewer than the total who benefit from the safety net, who almost everyone would say it was good that they were helped. There will be a number of people, fewer than the total who benefit from the safety net, who almost everyone would say it was not good that they were helped. Most of politics around this topic is people's differing beliefs in the proportions of the above, and how bought in they are to minimising the latter count because they pay taxes.
WrongAssumption 3y ago
I’ve never been nor seen anyone in the US get inspected at a self checkout. Not once.
- hayleox 3y ago
  Might be your neighborhood -- stores with a low shrink rate might be more lax about inspections. I've only encountered it a few times myself but I'm also not the primary shopper in my household.
- ScoobleDoodle 3y ago
  That's because all of the self checkouts in the US use the weight change to match against the scanned item and any discrepancy leads to having to wait for a self-checkout attendant to manually override to let you continue. That manual override is equivalent to the inspection you're talking about not seeing. And I in the US get blocked needing an attendant 60%+ of the time at some point in the process. Usually up front with the bags I brought from home.
  - kaashif 3y ago
    At the Target next to where I live, the self checkouts don't weigh anything at all. I just scan something and put it in my backpack on the floor most of the time. And this is a Target where the toothpaste is locked up! I've never needed help from an attendant, and I've never been inspected either. Obviously it varies location by location.
  - Izkata 3y ago
    That's happened maybe 4 or 5 times to me in the 200 trips or so (estimated, once a week for years) I've made since I started using the self-checkout every time. It's so reliable and fast for me (store: Jewel-Osco), I just don't have the problems others here are seeing. Usually while waiting in line I don't see anyone else have issues either. Remove from basket, scan, put in bag. Remove from basket, scan, put in bag. The scale is the entire bagging area, and it detects when things were removed or added without being scanned, as far as I know that's all it does here. No specific weights.
  - 3y ago
dannyobrien 3y ago
The weighing thing seems to be an adjustable feature: in my /extremely/ low-trust Safeway in San Francisco, they started with narrow weight limits that were super-frustrating. Now that misfeature is turned off completely (but they have a little gate you need to wave your receipt at). I imagine everyone is still playing around to get the optimum ease-of-use vs shoplifting ratio right.
siva7 3y ago
Mandatory item weighting was standard procedure in many western europe self-checkout kiosks for years. The experience sucked and the solution felt over-engineered. They just dropped it recently and moved to a trust-based model overseen by a single employee. Now it's much faster.
callalex 3y ago
Is it a social safety net or stronger legal protections for retailers? In the USA the store has no legal right to detain you and spot check your receipt. Membership stores can revoke your membership for noncompliance and then not let you in anymore without a membership, but that is the closest you’ll find here.
astura 3y ago
You can't makes broad, sweeping generalizations like "UK/US type self checkout." It varies so much. I live in the US and the only place I ever go to where they weigh the items you scanned is Costco. Everywhere else I go (my local Walmart, Target, Aldi, two local grocery stores, and CVS) the self checkout is mostly based on trust with maybe one employee somewhat monitoring some machines. No random sampling. The only issue I ever run into with the self checkouts is double scanning the product. You do need employee to void items.
tim333 3y ago
I was disappointed when my Waitrose at Kings Cross London got rid of the non weighing machines and replaced them with regular ones. I think the non weighing ones end up costing the store more either through people nicking stuff or having to have staff watch them.
clocot 3y ago
[flagged]

dambi0 3y ago

A lot of the waiting is for age restricted items or machine errors rather than trust issues. I have never once been randomly sampled after self surface purchase in either the UK/US.

DangitBobby 3y ago
Without trust issues there would be no machine errors in my experience. Anytime there's an issue it's because I'm scanning too fast for the machine and it can't figure out how the weights work. Or I selected the wrong type of garlic and only the associate is allowed to remove items (why would you not let me remove items I personally added??).
- dambi0 3y ago
  Fair, the inability to remove your own items seems maybe a hang-up from an older view of privileged cashiers. The store I currently use doesn’t have weight checks except for weighed produce. You can leave your stuff in the cart and with the wireless scanner and a bit of forethought everything can stay in there. Different trust models makes things interesting. I have never been checked leaving the store and I don’t think social safety net or otherwise is the driving factor
  - saalweachter 3y ago
    Yeah, the not being able to remove items grinds my gears. It's especially annoying when I am waving an item furiously, trying to get the poorly printed barcode to scan, and when it finally accepts it, it double scans the item. Then when I have to stand there waiting for someone to remove the item is usually where I get disgusted with the process and give up on shopping, especially when it happens multiple times.
Muromec 3y ago
It’s definitely trust issues here in the Netherlands. Buying something for under 5 euro bucks in a shop where middle school kids buy their lunches is almost guaranteed check. More than one in three times. A different shop and a bigger amount — checks almost never

robertlagrant 3y ago

> Another benefit of having a proper social safety net I guess. I doubt it's as simple as this. People don't only steal because they could technically afford things. Just as people don't only kill in self defence.

ScoobleDoodle 3y ago
Social safety net is more than just being able to afford it. It's a combination of not being able to afford it and general erosion of social values leading to "take what you can get away with" mentality. So even those that can afford it will still try to get more since it's everyone for themselves. Instead of cooperation under a system with a social safety net, we get a game theoretic weighting on defection without a social safety net.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > Social safety net is more than just being able to afford it. It's a combination of not being able to afford it and general erosion of social values leading to "take what you can get away with" mentality. There's a causal arrow in the other direction, IMHO: People like to believe in the 'law of the jungle' mentality and thus vote to cut the safety net. IME it's especially wealthy people for whom it's a kind of game, not trauma, deprivation (of education, health care, food, housing, safety) and survival, and who also get to pay lower taxes, Didn't Jamie Dimon talk about how he liked how 'animal spirits' have been awakened?
  - doktrin 3y ago
    A lot of house cats walking around imagining themselves to be lions.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > Instead of cooperation under a system with a social safety net, we get a game theoretic weighting on defection without a social safety net. There is a safety net. Here's how I'd describe the situation: There will be a number of people, fewer than the total who benefit from the safety net, who almost everyone would say it was good that they were helped. There will be a number of people, fewer than the total who benefit from the safety net, who almost everyone would say it was not good that they were helped. Most of politics around this topic is people's differing beliefs in the proportions of the above, and how bought in they are to minimising the latter count because they pay taxes.

WrongAssumption 3y ago

I’ve never been nor seen anyone in the US get inspected at a self checkout. Not once.

hayleox 3y ago
Might be your neighborhood -- stores with a low shrink rate might be more lax about inspections. I've only encountered it a few times myself but I'm also not the primary shopper in my household.
ScoobleDoodle 3y ago
That's because all of the self checkouts in the US use the weight change to match against the scanned item and any discrepancy leads to having to wait for a self-checkout attendant to manually override to let you continue. That manual override is equivalent to the inspection you're talking about not seeing. And I in the US get blocked needing an attendant 60%+ of the time at some point in the process. Usually up front with the bags I brought from home.
- kaashif 3y ago
  At the Target next to where I live, the self checkouts don't weigh anything at all. I just scan something and put it in my backpack on the floor most of the time. And this is a Target where the toothpaste is locked up! I've never needed help from an attendant, and I've never been inspected either. Obviously it varies location by location.
- Izkata 3y ago
  That's happened maybe 4 or 5 times to me in the 200 trips or so (estimated, once a week for years) I've made since I started using the self-checkout every time. It's so reliable and fast for me (store: Jewel-Osco), I just don't have the problems others here are seeing. Usually while waiting in line I don't see anyone else have issues either. Remove from basket, scan, put in bag. Remove from basket, scan, put in bag. The scale is the entire bagging area, and it detects when things were removed or added without being scanned, as far as I know that's all it does here. No specific weights.
- 3y ago

dannyobrien 3y ago

The weighing thing seems to be an adjustable feature: in my /extremely/ low-trust Safeway in San Francisco, they started with narrow weight limits that were super-frustrating. Now that misfeature is turned off completely (but they have a little gate you need to wave your receipt at). I imagine everyone is still playing around to get the optimum ease-of-use vs shoplifting ratio right.

siva7 3y ago

Mandatory item weighting was standard procedure in many western europe self-checkout kiosks for years. The experience sucked and the solution felt over-engineered. They just dropped it recently and moved to a trust-based model overseen by a single employee. Now it's much faster.

callalex 3y ago

Is it a social safety net or stronger legal protections for retailers? In the USA the store has no legal right to detain you and spot check your receipt. Membership stores can revoke your membership for noncompliance and then not let you in anymore without a membership, but that is the closest you’ll find here.

astura 3y ago

You can't makes broad, sweeping generalizations like "UK/US type self checkout." It varies so much. I live in the US and the only place I ever go to where they weigh the items you scanned is Costco. Everywhere else I go (my local Walmart, Target, Aldi, two local grocery stores, and CVS) the self checkout is mostly based on trust with maybe one employee somewhat monitoring some machines. No random sampling. The only issue I ever run into with the self checkouts is double scanning the product. You do need employee to void items.

tim333 3y ago

I was disappointed when my Waitrose at Kings Cross London got rid of the non weighing machines and replaced them with regular ones. I think the non weighing ones end up costing the store more either through people nicking stuff or having to have staff watch them.

clocot 3y ago

[flagged]