4 ms·

I refuse to tolerate assholes

13 points by xando 14y ago

After reading this thread https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-5654674 (especially this comment), Friend of mine sent to me this article. Maybe it's coincident maybe not. But kind of good response.

xando 14y ago
After reading this thread https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-5659970 https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-56599... (especially this comment), Friend of mine sent to me this article. Maybe it's coincident maybe not. But kind of good response.
- j_col 14y ago
  Wow, Linus does not come across well in that thread at all.
  - tomjen3 14y ago
    He is a well known asshole -- but does that mean that we should uninstall Linux?
  - lucian1900 14y ago
    It has been repeated several times: Linus doesn't come across well because the troll deleted some much nastier comments.
    - xando 14y ago
      I didn't know about this part of the conversation. So in that case, where I can find original one? Any mirrors where created, that we know about?
      - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
        It was discussed on HN earlier this week.[1] One thing you will note is that Linus addressed his comment to a Joseph, but none of the commenters before that are named Joseph. Joseph removed his comment. No one had a mirror but people recall the gist of the deleted comment.[2] [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3973816 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3973816 [2] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3974008 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3974008
AndrewDucker 14y ago
I have to say I agree. Sure, you might say, there are some geniuses in Open Source who are obnoxious, and we need them. But my question is this - how many geniuses who are quiet and confrontation averse have left Open Source, never to return, because of the way they were treated?
antihero 14y ago
One could argue that while assholes may write good code, for all we know they're putting off people that would write as good or even better code and not be assholes. This especially applies to women - sure there are misogynistic jerks that are great coders, but who's to say the women they are putting off wouldn't be better in the long run? I hear the argument that if someone is dedicated enough they'll overlook the abuse they get and do what they do anyway, but the entire premise of the overarching debate is that social skills don't really correlate with technical skills, which blows that argument out of the water - people might not have the social skills to deal with shitbags, but that doesn't mean they aren't fantastic amazing programmers.
- tomjen3 14y ago
  Why is it that people care so much about how many females there is this industry? Isn't it more important how good code I write, than the fact that I have a cock between my legs and not a cunt? Anyway social skills are pretty much just a filter between what you want to say (how many times to you think "this guy is an asshole" and don't say it) and what you actually say and part of this is the ability to pick up (and care about) what others feel and guess (and if really good) force their reactions and desires to match what you want them to do (see the end of the previous paragraph for an example). None of that has anything to do with code. The compiler has no feelings and doesn't care about yours. So if you want somebody in charge of the project, make sure they can deal with people (including assholes). If you want code written, accept that the people who can do it best have better things to care about than feelings.
  - gazrogers 14y ago
    > If you want code written, accept that the people who can do it best have better things to care about than feelings. Are you suggesting that all the 'best coders' are arseholes? If so, do you have any evidence to back that up?
    - roopeshv 14y ago
      "have evidence to back that up" the cop out for things you don't agree with. how the fuck did you even conclude that they have better things to care about than feelings means being assholes. do you have evidence to back up that's what he means?
tomjen3 14y ago
The problem is that not everybody agrees on who is the asshole. Somebody who wishes to force professionalism (ie a suit whether he wears it or nor not) on me is a bigger asshole than one who writes good code but can start a good flame war.
kaitnieks 14y ago
Having never done open source before, I'm wondering about something: if an open source project is started, once it becomes popular and attracts community of developers and other contributors I assume the power shifts from the guy who started the project to the community. Does the person who started the project still retains his power to boot out the assholes from his project or not?
- Daniel_Newby 14y ago
  It depends. The founders tend to hang around and retain power. Larry Wall (Perl) and Guido van Rossum (Python) have kept a fair amount of control and strongly encouraged a friendly atmosphere. Debian Linux became a voting democracy and is reasonably pleasant. Nothing stops someone from forking an open source project, making their own version. The BSD Unixes are famous for schisms, and some of the new founders are famously ... opinionated. One of benefits of open source is that obnoxious but competent people boot themselves out.
delinquentme 14y ago
I mean the name of the post alone makes him an asshole
roopeshv 14y ago
In summary: "I refuse to tolerate assholes, only if it's not steve jobs or cult figure in my cult." (not aimed at jacob, he wrote this in a different context. but this is aimed at xando who submitted it)
bigbritches 14y ago
The irony of the post is that he is one the most prolific trolls of competing libraries to his own in Python. Asshole hater, un-asshole yourself.

13 points by xando 14y ago

xando 14y ago

After reading this thread https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-5659970 https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-56599... (especially this comment), Friend of mine sent to me this article. Maybe it's coincident maybe not. But kind of good response.

j_col 14y ago
Wow, Linus does not come across well in that thread at all.
- tomjen3 14y ago
  He is a well known asshole -- but does that mean that we should uninstall Linux?
- lucian1900 14y ago
  It has been repeated several times: Linus doesn't come across well because the troll deleted some much nastier comments.
  - xando 14y ago
    I didn't know about this part of the conversation. So in that case, where I can find original one? Any mirrors where created, that we know about?
    - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
      It was discussed on HN earlier this week.[1] One thing you will note is that Linus addressed his comment to a Joseph, but none of the commenters before that are named Joseph. Joseph removed his comment. No one had a mirror but people recall the gist of the deleted comment.[2] [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3973816 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3973816 [2] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3974008 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3974008

AndrewDucker 14y ago

I have to say I agree. Sure, you might say, there are some geniuses in Open Source who are obnoxious, and we need them. But my question is this - how many geniuses who are quiet and confrontation averse have left Open Source, never to return, because of the way they were treated?

antihero 14y ago

One could argue that while assholes may write good code, for all we know they're putting off people that would write as good or even better code and not be assholes. This especially applies to women - sure there are misogynistic jerks that are great coders, but who's to say the women they are putting off wouldn't be better in the long run? I hear the argument that if someone is dedicated enough they'll overlook the abuse they get and do what they do anyway, but the entire premise of the overarching debate is that social skills don't really correlate with technical skills, which blows that argument out of the water - people might not have the social skills to deal with shitbags, but that doesn't mean they aren't fantastic amazing programmers.

tomjen3 14y ago
Why is it that people care so much about how many females there is this industry? Isn't it more important how good code I write, than the fact that I have a cock between my legs and not a cunt? Anyway social skills are pretty much just a filter between what you want to say (how many times to you think "this guy is an asshole" and don't say it) and what you actually say and part of this is the ability to pick up (and care about) what others feel and guess (and if really good) force their reactions and desires to match what you want them to do (see the end of the previous paragraph for an example). None of that has anything to do with code. The compiler has no feelings and doesn't care about yours. So if you want somebody in charge of the project, make sure they can deal with people (including assholes). If you want code written, accept that the people who can do it best have better things to care about than feelings.
- gazrogers 14y ago
  > If you want code written, accept that the people who can do it best have better things to care about than feelings. Are you suggesting that all the 'best coders' are arseholes? If so, do you have any evidence to back that up?
  - roopeshv 14y ago
    "have evidence to back that up" the cop out for things you don't agree with. how the fuck did you even conclude that they have better things to care about than feelings means being assholes. do you have evidence to back up that's what he means?

tomjen3 14y ago

The problem is that not everybody agrees on who is the asshole. Somebody who wishes to force professionalism (ie a suit whether he wears it or nor not) on me is a bigger asshole than one who writes good code but can start a good flame war.

kaitnieks 14y ago

Having never done open source before, I'm wondering about something: if an open source project is started, once it becomes popular and attracts community of developers and other contributors I assume the power shifts from the guy who started the project to the community. Does the person who started the project still retains his power to boot out the assholes from his project or not?

Daniel_Newby 14y ago
It depends. The founders tend to hang around and retain power. Larry Wall (Perl) and Guido van Rossum (Python) have kept a fair amount of control and strongly encouraged a friendly atmosphere. Debian Linux became a voting democracy and is reasonably pleasant. Nothing stops someone from forking an open source project, making their own version. The BSD Unixes are famous for schisms, and some of the new founders are famously ... opinionated. One of benefits of open source is that obnoxious but competent people boot themselves out.

delinquentme 14y ago

I mean the name of the post alone makes him an asshole

roopeshv 14y ago

In summary: "I refuse to tolerate assholes, only if it's not steve jobs or cult figure in my cult." (not aimed at jacob, he wrote this in a different context. but this is aimed at xando who submitted it)

bigbritches 14y ago

The irony of the post is that he is one the most prolific trolls of competing libraries to his own in Python. Asshole hater, un-asshole yourself.