6 ms·

Tangential to this, but I don’t really see any discussion about Vision Pro since launch. Is it dead on arrival?

grecy 3y ago
A lot of the articles so far are speculating it's mostly a technology demonstrator, or close to a dev kit. Everyone seems to agree it's mighty impressive, but not quite there yet. Gen 2 or Gen 3 will surely be cheaper, lighter and better, and somewhere along there I'm betting we'll see iPhone levels of adoption.
- vundercind 3y ago
  Gen 1 iPad was a bit meh. Thick, heavy, didn’t do much. Kinda just a tech demo for a large very-responsive touchscreen device. Gen 2 was so perfect that they sold it for years and years, and launched a related product line based on its platform (the Mini).
  - grecy 3y ago
    Same story for the iPod, same story for the MacBook Air, same story for the iPhone. I think we'll see the same story play out once there are a few "killer" apps for it, and some of the features are refined (pass through sharpness, for example), and it gets a bit cheaper.
    - FabHK 3y ago
      iPod gen 1 was awesome.
      - grecy 3y ago
        I agree, but with Firewire only and no Windows support, it was not a big seller.
  - _glass 3y ago
    Yes, I even remember everybody saying that tablets will never be used because of the gorilla arm (?) effect, that you can't hold your hand long time up. But now I see a young generation using exclusively tablets. Also the first iPhone, was looked at strangely. I remember being ashamed of using one. Internet was slow. We will know only in hindsight. I have no idea about the future of VR. I see the use-cases, but let's see.
laweijfmvo 3y ago
it might seem silly, but this “flying toaster” sort of thing was exactly the type of first apps being developed for the iphone. we know what eventually happened. so time will tell.
- randomdata 3y ago
  The iPhone was already a smashing success before third-party apps (jailbroken ones included) were ever developed. It took the Newton to get there, though. Vision Pro may be this generation's Newton, perhaps. Time will tell, indeed.
  - joshstrange 3y ago
    > The iPhone was already a smashing success before third-party apps (jailbroken ones included) were ever developed. Source for this? It wasn't until a few generations in that the iPhone really took off. Yes there were die-hard supporter and people who loved it from day 1 but people always pretend the iPhone was destined to be what it is today at launch and that was not at all the impression I had living through it.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - randomdata 3y ago
      > Source for this? A what? What does source mean in this context? Regardless, the Vision Pro needs to sell approximately an order of magnitude more units in the next couple of months to catch up with the iPhone 1.
- nebula8804 3y ago
  >we know what eventually happened. So what you are saying is that I need to develop an app which is just a ruby and when you touch it, it displays the following text I am rich I deserv [sic] it I am good, healthy & successful Hmm wonder what would be the good price for such an app? I guess $999.99 will have to do.
thomastjeffery 3y ago
It's grounded on launch with it's own concrete shoes. Apple released a VR headset that you can't use to play video games or watch porn with, and priced it at ~2-6x the price of competitive hardware.
- astrange 3y ago
  You can watch porn all you want, and it costs less than Microsoft HoloLens did. (Similar to Bing where Bing Maps is worse than Apple Maps, but nobody reported on it because nobody remembers it exists.)
  - xp84 3y ago
    It may well become more successful in some niche market than HoloLens (another niche product) too. But it's not a serious consumer product at $3500 (just kidding, better upgrade that non-upgradeable storage from the 0.25TB, so at least $3700) unless it can, at bare minimum, replace another expensive device (iPhone or Mac) while also doing those things better. Or if some killer app is developed. Which I wouldn't hold my breath too hard for based on their relationship with developers. A killer app like: multiple sports league partnerships which allow you to strap on AVP and be courtside/front row/etc at every game for some monthly subscription -- and all your friends who are also watching the same game are visble and audible via their Personas like they're right next to you. Suddenly, when compared to season tickets or going to 10 games a year, AVP looks great. But I am not necessarily confident that something like this will emerge for this product. Because a lot of content related stuff, which is the only 'proven' consumer use for VR, is dependent on getting content owners to play ball, and content owners don't want to help cement Apple into a dominant position in yet another industry, after seeing how cutthroat their behavior is in music and smartphone apps.
    - threeseed 3y ago
      > But it's not a serious consumer product That's why it's called Vision Pro. And Apple today added support for spatial personas allowing developers to create the experience you are talking about: https://www.uploadvr.com/apple-vision-pro-spatial-personas-launch/ https://www.uploadvr.com/apple-vision-pro-spatial-personas-l...
eddieroger 3y ago
It's got its use cases that don't align with the kind of topics here, so it's not discussed. Doesn't make it dead, just unpopular with the HN crowd. Maybe even fair to say unpopular with the mainstream crowd. But so was the first, Mac-only iPod, and here we are. I have one. I use it every day for a handful of things, but I don't come on here and talk about it.
- dartos 3y ago
  It’s pretty dead :/ But I think this was the classic strategy of pricing out everyone except for those who will build on it or be excited by it, then make a polished v2 with wider appeal once there’s content.
- mattbrewsbytes 3y ago
  I would counter that people adopted iPods en masse a lot faster than they will ever adopt a VR headset. VR is only ever going to be a niche use case. I think those use cases in entertainment realm are the only use cases that could get wide adoption and even then its someone wearing it for 1-2 hours. I think this might suffer from a product class that needs widespread adoption to fund development in order to get smaller form factors and it will never get the widespread adoption.
  - eddieroger 3y ago
    I agree that the iPod was adopted faster, but that definitely wasn't version 1, and the early versions were heavily mocked before they were adopted. It was too expensive, it was Mac only, it used FireWire, which was not widely available, things like that. Not the challenges that the Vision Pro (and VR) will face, but still challenges. Apple figured out how to get Windows support, then how to shrink the form factor when it made sense. I imagine they'll do that again.
    - mattl 3y ago
      FireWire was very widely available on Macs of the era, which is why it made sense amongst other things. (USB 1.1 is very slow, FireWire could also provide power, Apple invented FireWire)
frozenport 3y ago
Yeah. Basically you can use it as an TV and that’s about it. The gesture interface is incompatible with any efficient data manipulation and the screen underperforms compared to a computer monitor. Unlike the iPhone Apple can’t simply software patch or enable an App Store to fix these issues.
- t888 3y ago
  What are you basing this on?
  - frozenport 3y ago
    I bought and returned one.
- astrange 3y ago
  It works with Bluetooth keyboards and trackpads.
laidoffamazon 3y ago
I've been using it daily, it's excellent. I'm on a trip and don't have access to it and I'm seriously missing it.
- JKCalhoun 3y ago
  I guess Adam Savage thinks it's one of the better ways to experience movies.
  - laidoffamazon 3y ago
    Absolutely. It's also a good work tool - in certain cases I prefer it to multiple monitors as I usually work. You get full focus in the environment as well.
  - qarl 3y ago
    Dune part 1 in 3D blew my mind. IMHO.
  - khazhoux 3y ago
    Even for 2D movies, I no longer bother with my big screen tv.
t888 3y ago
[flagged]
- Sharlin 3y ago
  Yes, lots and lots.
  - t888 3y ago
    I think you’re mistaken. Care to link to a single post where the commentary is positive about Apple?
    - Sharlin 3y ago
      The null hypothesis is that there is no particular bias either for or against Apple on HN. The burden of proof is on you if you claim such a bias exists. My counter-hypothesis is that HN has a pro-Apple bias on average simply because it's an American tech-focused site, and Apple is an American tech company. If everybody on HN were European or Asian, the average opinion might be less favorable. But it's just a hypothesis, one I'm not particlarly inclined to defend.
      - t888 3y ago
        1. I’m not the one making the claim without evidence. You are. 2. I see absolutely no reason why the null hypothesis should be that a randomly selected social group would be unbiased about any particular issue by default. If you think about it for any length of time you should see that as implausible on its face. 3. You’ve just made up a weird ’counter hypothesis’ of pro Apple bias of your own and thrown it into the discussion for no apparent reason, while claiming not to be willing to defend it. That seems underhanded. 4. Why not just provide some evidence? I’m even more sure you’re wrong now that you’ve chosen to defend your position using these tactics, since it would be trivial for you to provide a link if you actually do remember such a discussion.
        Sharlin 3y ago
huytersd 3y ago
I don’t see any discussion of Apple products at all on here outside of the reveal.
- dylan604 3y ago
  You must not consider the App Store an Apple product??
langsoul-com 3y ago
Everything that can be said about it already has been. Right now, just gota wait for 3rd gen for the real stuff to happen. Similar story with Quest, 1 was ok but 3rd gen is actually great.

A lot of the articles so far are speculating it's mostly a technology demonstrator, or close to a dev kit. Everyone seems to agree it's mighty impressive, but not quite there yet. Gen 2 or Gen 3 will surely be cheaper, lighter and better, and somewhere along there I'm betting we'll see iPhone levels of adoption.

vundercind 3y ago
Gen 1 iPad was a bit meh. Thick, heavy, didn’t do much. Kinda just a tech demo for a large very-responsive touchscreen device. Gen 2 was so perfect that they sold it for years and years, and launched a related product line based on its platform (the Mini).
- grecy 3y ago
  Same story for the iPod, same story for the MacBook Air, same story for the iPhone. I think we'll see the same story play out once there are a few "killer" apps for it, and some of the features are refined (pass through sharpness, for example), and it gets a bit cheaper.
  - FabHK 3y ago
    iPod gen 1 was awesome.
    - grecy 3y ago
      I agree, but with Firewire only and no Windows support, it was not a big seller.
- _glass 3y ago
  Yes, I even remember everybody saying that tablets will never be used because of the gorilla arm (?) effect, that you can't hold your hand long time up. But now I see a young generation using exclusively tablets. Also the first iPhone, was looked at strangely. I remember being ashamed of using one. Internet was slow. We will know only in hindsight. I have no idea about the future of VR. I see the use-cases, but let's see.

laweijfmvo 3y ago

it might seem silly, but this “flying toaster” sort of thing was exactly the type of first apps being developed for the iphone. we know what eventually happened. so time will tell.

randomdata 3y ago
The iPhone was already a smashing success before third-party apps (jailbroken ones included) were ever developed. It took the Newton to get there, though. Vision Pro may be this generation's Newton, perhaps. Time will tell, indeed.
- joshstrange 3y ago
  > The iPhone was already a smashing success before third-party apps (jailbroken ones included) were ever developed. Source for this? It wasn't until a few generations in that the iPhone really took off. Yes there were die-hard supporter and people who loved it from day 1 but people always pretend the iPhone was destined to be what it is today at launch and that was not at all the impression I had living through it.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - randomdata 3y ago
    > Source for this? A what? What does source mean in this context? Regardless, the Vision Pro needs to sell approximately an order of magnitude more units in the next couple of months to catch up with the iPhone 1.
nebula8804 3y ago
>we know what eventually happened. So what you are saying is that I need to develop an app which is just a ruby and when you touch it, it displays the following text I am rich I deserv [sic] it I am good, healthy & successful Hmm wonder what would be the good price for such an app? I guess $999.99 will have to do.

thomastjeffery 3y ago

It's grounded on launch with it's own concrete shoes. Apple released a VR headset that you can't use to play video games or watch porn with, and priced it at ~2-6x the price of competitive hardware.

astrange 3y ago
You can watch porn all you want, and it costs less than Microsoft HoloLens did. (Similar to Bing where Bing Maps is worse than Apple Maps, but nobody reported on it because nobody remembers it exists.)
- xp84 3y ago
  It may well become more successful in some niche market than HoloLens (another niche product) too. But it's not a serious consumer product at $3500 (just kidding, better upgrade that non-upgradeable storage from the 0.25TB, so at least $3700) unless it can, at bare minimum, replace another expensive device (iPhone or Mac) while also doing those things better. Or if some killer app is developed. Which I wouldn't hold my breath too hard for based on their relationship with developers. A killer app like: multiple sports league partnerships which allow you to strap on AVP and be courtside/front row/etc at every game for some monthly subscription -- and all your friends who are also watching the same game are visble and audible via their Personas like they're right next to you. Suddenly, when compared to season tickets or going to 10 games a year, AVP looks great. But I am not necessarily confident that something like this will emerge for this product. Because a lot of content related stuff, which is the only 'proven' consumer use for VR, is dependent on getting content owners to play ball, and content owners don't want to help cement Apple into a dominant position in yet another industry, after seeing how cutthroat their behavior is in music and smartphone apps.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    > But it's not a serious consumer product That's why it's called Vision Pro. And Apple today added support for spatial personas allowing developers to create the experience you are talking about: https://www.uploadvr.com/apple-vision-pro-spatial-personas-launch/ https://www.uploadvr.com/apple-vision-pro-spatial-personas-l...

eddieroger 3y ago

It's got its use cases that don't align with the kind of topics here, so it's not discussed. Doesn't make it dead, just unpopular with the HN crowd. Maybe even fair to say unpopular with the mainstream crowd. But so was the first, Mac-only iPod, and here we are. I have one. I use it every day for a handful of things, but I don't come on here and talk about it.

dartos 3y ago
It’s pretty dead :/ But I think this was the classic strategy of pricing out everyone except for those who will build on it or be excited by it, then make a polished v2 with wider appeal once there’s content.
mattbrewsbytes 3y ago
I would counter that people adopted iPods en masse a lot faster than they will ever adopt a VR headset. VR is only ever going to be a niche use case. I think those use cases in entertainment realm are the only use cases that could get wide adoption and even then its someone wearing it for 1-2 hours. I think this might suffer from a product class that needs widespread adoption to fund development in order to get smaller form factors and it will never get the widespread adoption.
- eddieroger 3y ago
  I agree that the iPod was adopted faster, but that definitely wasn't version 1, and the early versions were heavily mocked before they were adopted. It was too expensive, it was Mac only, it used FireWire, which was not widely available, things like that. Not the challenges that the Vision Pro (and VR) will face, but still challenges. Apple figured out how to get Windows support, then how to shrink the form factor when it made sense. I imagine they'll do that again.
  - mattl 3y ago
    FireWire was very widely available on Macs of the era, which is why it made sense amongst other things. (USB 1.1 is very slow, FireWire could also provide power, Apple invented FireWire)

frozenport 3y ago

Yeah. Basically you can use it as an TV and that’s about it. The gesture interface is incompatible with any efficient data manipulation and the screen underperforms compared to a computer monitor. Unlike the iPhone Apple can’t simply software patch or enable an App Store to fix these issues.

t888 3y ago
What are you basing this on?
- frozenport 3y ago
  I bought and returned one.
astrange 3y ago
It works with Bluetooth keyboards and trackpads.

laidoffamazon 3y ago

I've been using it daily, it's excellent. I'm on a trip and don't have access to it and I'm seriously missing it.

JKCalhoun 3y ago
I guess Adam Savage thinks it's one of the better ways to experience movies.
- laidoffamazon 3y ago
  Absolutely. It's also a good work tool - in certain cases I prefer it to multiple monitors as I usually work. You get full focus in the environment as well.
- qarl 3y ago
  Dune part 1 in 3D blew my mind. IMHO.
- khazhoux 3y ago
  Even for 2D movies, I no longer bother with my big screen tv.

t888 3y ago

[flagged]

Sharlin 3y ago
Yes, lots and lots.
- t888 3y ago
  I think you’re mistaken. Care to link to a single post where the commentary is positive about Apple?
  - Sharlin 3y ago
    The null hypothesis is that there is no particular bias either for or against Apple on HN. The burden of proof is on you if you claim such a bias exists. My counter-hypothesis is that HN has a pro-Apple bias on average simply because it's an American tech-focused site, and Apple is an American tech company. If everybody on HN were European or Asian, the average opinion might be less favorable. But it's just a hypothesis, one I'm not particlarly inclined to defend.
    - t888 3y ago
      1. I’m not the one making the claim without evidence. You are. 2. I see absolutely no reason why the null hypothesis should be that a randomly selected social group would be unbiased about any particular issue by default. If you think about it for any length of time you should see that as implausible on its face. 3. You’ve just made up a weird ’counter hypothesis’ of pro Apple bias of your own and thrown it into the discussion for no apparent reason, while claiming not to be willing to defend it. That seems underhanded. 4. Why not just provide some evidence? I’m even more sure you’re wrong now that you’ve chosen to defend your position using these tactics, since it would be trivial for you to provide a link if you actually do remember such a discussion.
      - Sharlin 3y ago

huytersd 3y ago

I don’t see any discussion of Apple products at all on here outside of the reveal.

dylan604 3y ago
You must not consider the App Store an Apple product??

langsoul-com 3y ago

Everything that can be said about it already has been. Right now, just gota wait for 3rd gen for the real stuff to happen. Similar story with Quest, 1 was ok but 3rd gen is actually great.