4 ms·

I ask owners of other EV vehicles how they like their car, and >50% of my sample size of ~10 bring up "at least it's not owned by that crazy man" as a big reaso

I ask owners of other EV vehicles how they like their car, and >50% of my sample size of ~10 bring up "at least it's not owned by that crazy man" as a big reason as they explain the other deficiencies. (Mostly bad controls, UX, etc. stuff that the Tesla gets right.) I have a Tesla Model 3 right now and it's my favorite car ever, by far, but I also will be unlikely to buy another tesla. It's not the same company as six years ago.

brtkdotse 3y ago
I chose a Kia eNiro because it had ”bad” but predictable controls/UX. Basically a normal, boring car with dedicated buttons for most things, but with a EV drivetrain.
- Stratoscope 3y ago
  Same with my Kia EV6. After driving my old Kia Rondo for 15 years, I felt right at home in the EV6. Traditional stalks for lights and wipers, all kinds of dedicated buttons, familiar and comfortable. Kia went to quite some work to make it feel like a regular car.
ein0p 3y ago
Funny, I'm considering buying our second Tesla (to replace my BMW) because the company _is_ run by Musk. I'm also big fan of not dictating what other people should say, and find his direct communication style refreshing, even though I disagree with some of his opinions. And that's before we even bring up several other areas where he's successfully doing civilizationally impactful work.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
  >even though I disagree with some of his opinions Let me guess, nothing that's part his core believes?
  - ein0p 3y ago
    Yes, I do believe our species needs to be multiplanetary, internet should be available everywhere, electric cars need to take over, and paralyzed people should be able to walk again.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      We share the same goals (except for electric cars needing to take over - they do, but the real issue is that public mass transit needs to take over!), but the methods / the lengths Elon Musk is willing to go to in pursuit of those goals are disturbing to many people.
      - ein0p 3y ago
        I don't think public mass transit will take over in the US in my lifetime, outside major cities. We're just too spread out, and a lot of us, especially people with kids, like it that way. Mass transit absolutely, positively does not work in the US if you have at least one child.
        ericmay 3y ago
        > Mass transit absolutely, positively does not work in the US if you have at least one child. Kind of a confusing statement. Sure the current state doesn't work in the US, which is because it isn't designed to work and there is little to no investment or money spent on public transit. You can know that this is factually true by looking at your state department of highways budgets and examining how funds are allocated. It does work in other countries, including countries that have parents with children. There is no logistical or cost-based reason it won't or couldn't work in the US. Nothing special about "spread out" - which is another choice we intentionally make or the size of the country. It's also mostly untrue since most of the population in the US lives in urban areas. Suburban areas can just continue to grow as is and become more dense while preserving SFHs.
        ein0p 3y ago
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
  All I’ll say is: don’t advertise your lust for a Muslkian “direct” communication style during job interviews. All I’m hearing is “terrible to work with”. I’m sure you’ll appreciate the direct nature in which I communicated this, even if you disagree with it.
  - ein0p 3y ago
    I no longer do "job interviews". People ask me whether I'd like to come work for them. Sometimes, I go and work for them. Your communication style is not direct enough for me I'm afraid, clearly you feel quite a bit more passionate about this than you let on. People must say what you permit, and never stray from the approved narratives, or else. Be careful to not mention that in job interviews.
- ericmay 3y ago
  > I'm also big fan of not dictating what other people should say Me either, but in this context what would that have to do with Elon Musk or Tesla? Are you suggesting that other automobile manufacturers or their CEOs try to dictate what other people say?
- ahahahahah 3y ago
  > I'm also big fan of not dictating what other people should say I'm trying to understand this in the context of musk's behavior, did you mean "I'm also a big fan of saying that I'm a big fan of not dictating what other people should say"? Or "I'm also a big fan of dictating what other people say"? I think either of those would make more sense in this context.
nobleach 3y ago
You have basically found the Reddit /r/technology contingency. Most stories I see there are laughing at a single man's failures. There's just a lot of hate. I wanted a Tesla because other friends and family let me ride in theirs. I liked the car. I also like Chick-fil-a Chicken, and Papa Johns Pizza. From time to time, I visit Hobby Lobby. If I did digging on EVERY CEO, and found things that I disagreed with, I'd likely have few places left to shop. Instead, I try to focus on the other "non-crazy" folks that work at these places. When it comes to Tesla technology... it's actually really good.
- epistasis 3y ago
  I don't know anything about r/technology, but I do know that Musk has alienated his core customer base, and is continually making massive noise about politics, unlike most other CEOs. And even more stupidly, he is aligning with an anti-EV, anti-solar, anti-energy storage political faction in his attempt to alienate early adopters. Makes him seem extremely weak and self-hating. And that's before all the bad decisions in the direction of the product over the past six years. Musk's made a great product far worse by being so involved and making boldly bad decisions left and right.
kllrnohj 3y ago
> Mostly bad controls, UX, etc. stuff that the Tesla gets right. What? Tesla's controls are ass. They're infotainment responsiveness is great, but the turn signal steering wheel buttons, windshield wipers, drive mode select, etc... are all absolutely horrible. It's literally the reason we passed on the Model 3 & S when shopping for an EV. The extra 20-60 miles of range wasn't worth it to put up with that nonsense.
- e36 3y ago
  That's just for the cars with that yoke steering wheel, right? The controls for the more "normal" cars is pretty intuitive. Except for headlights. I don't know why it couldn't just have a switch for headlights.
  - kllrnohj 3y ago
    No, it's for all of them. The Model 3 was updated to also have the stalks taken away and the PRND controls moved to the roof https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_eu/GUID-A5F2B9D0-E7C8-40F5-9642-58F3657B123E.html https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_eu/GUID-A5F2B9D...
    - e36 3y ago
      Whoa, that seems like so much more work to manage and use than the current standard.
      - dzhiurgis 3y ago
        Opposite. Think about whats easier - move your thumb or entire arm?
    - dzhiurgis 3y ago
      Turn signals on wheel is fire. Drive mode I'm not too sure, only drove for few minutes.
- epistasis 3y ago

brtkdotse 3y ago

I chose a Kia eNiro because it had ”bad” but predictable controls/UX. Basically a normal, boring car with dedicated buttons for most things, but with a EV drivetrain.

Stratoscope 3y ago
Same with my Kia EV6. After driving my old Kia Rondo for 15 years, I felt right at home in the EV6. Traditional stalks for lights and wipers, all kinds of dedicated buttons, familiar and comfortable. Kia went to quite some work to make it feel like a regular car.

ein0p 3y ago

Funny, I'm considering buying our second Tesla (to replace my BMW) because the company _is_ run by Musk. I'm also big fan of not dictating what other people should say, and find his direct communication style refreshing, even though I disagree with some of his opinions. And that's before we even bring up several other areas where he's successfully doing civilizationally impactful work.

rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
>even though I disagree with some of his opinions Let me guess, nothing that's part his core believes?
- ein0p 3y ago
  Yes, I do believe our species needs to be multiplanetary, internet should be available everywhere, electric cars need to take over, and paralyzed people should be able to walk again.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    We share the same goals (except for electric cars needing to take over - they do, but the real issue is that public mass transit needs to take over!), but the methods / the lengths Elon Musk is willing to go to in pursuit of those goals are disturbing to many people.
    - ein0p 3y ago
      I don't think public mass transit will take over in the US in my lifetime, outside major cities. We're just too spread out, and a lot of us, especially people with kids, like it that way. Mass transit absolutely, positively does not work in the US if you have at least one child.
      - ericmay 3y ago
        > Mass transit absolutely, positively does not work in the US if you have at least one child. Kind of a confusing statement. Sure the current state doesn't work in the US, which is because it isn't designed to work and there is little to no investment or money spent on public transit. You can know that this is factually true by looking at your state department of highways budgets and examining how funds are allocated. It does work in other countries, including countries that have parents with children. There is no logistical or cost-based reason it won't or couldn't work in the US. Nothing special about "spread out" - which is another choice we intentionally make or the size of the country. It's also mostly untrue since most of the population in the US lives in urban areas. Suburban areas can just continue to grow as is and become more dense while preserving SFHs.
        ein0p 3y ago
cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
All I’ll say is: don’t advertise your lust for a Muslkian “direct” communication style during job interviews. All I’m hearing is “terrible to work with”. I’m sure you’ll appreciate the direct nature in which I communicated this, even if you disagree with it.
- ein0p 3y ago
  I no longer do "job interviews". People ask me whether I'd like to come work for them. Sometimes, I go and work for them. Your communication style is not direct enough for me I'm afraid, clearly you feel quite a bit more passionate about this than you let on. People must say what you permit, and never stray from the approved narratives, or else. Be careful to not mention that in job interviews.
ericmay 3y ago
> I'm also big fan of not dictating what other people should say Me either, but in this context what would that have to do with Elon Musk or Tesla? Are you suggesting that other automobile manufacturers or their CEOs try to dictate what other people say?
ahahahahah 3y ago
> I'm also big fan of not dictating what other people should say I'm trying to understand this in the context of musk's behavior, did you mean "I'm also a big fan of saying that I'm a big fan of not dictating what other people should say"? Or "I'm also a big fan of dictating what other people say"? I think either of those would make more sense in this context.

nobleach 3y ago

You have basically found the Reddit /r/technology contingency. Most stories I see there are laughing at a single man's failures. There's just a lot of hate. I wanted a Tesla because other friends and family let me ride in theirs. I liked the car. I also like Chick-fil-a Chicken, and Papa Johns Pizza. From time to time, I visit Hobby Lobby. If I did digging on EVERY CEO, and found things that I disagreed with, I'd likely have few places left to shop. Instead, I try to focus on the other "non-crazy" folks that work at these places. When it comes to Tesla technology... it's actually really good.

epistasis 3y ago
I don't know anything about r/technology, but I do know that Musk has alienated his core customer base, and is continually making massive noise about politics, unlike most other CEOs. And even more stupidly, he is aligning with an anti-EV, anti-solar, anti-energy storage political faction in his attempt to alienate early adopters. Makes him seem extremely weak and self-hating. And that's before all the bad decisions in the direction of the product over the past six years. Musk's made a great product far worse by being so involved and making boldly bad decisions left and right.

kllrnohj 3y ago

> Mostly bad controls, UX, etc. stuff that the Tesla gets right. What? Tesla's controls are ass. They're infotainment responsiveness is great, but the turn signal steering wheel buttons, windshield wipers, drive mode select, etc... are all absolutely horrible. It's literally the reason we passed on the Model 3 & S when shopping for an EV. The extra 20-60 miles of range wasn't worth it to put up with that nonsense.

e36 3y ago
That's just for the cars with that yoke steering wheel, right? The controls for the more "normal" cars is pretty intuitive. Except for headlights. I don't know why it couldn't just have a switch for headlights.
- kllrnohj 3y ago
  No, it's for all of them. The Model 3 was updated to also have the stalks taken away and the PRND controls moved to the roof https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_eu/GUID-A5F2B9D0-E7C8-40F5-9642-58F3657B123E.html https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_eu/GUID-A5F2B9D...
  - e36 3y ago
    Whoa, that seems like so much more work to manage and use than the current standard.
    - dzhiurgis 3y ago
      Opposite. Think about whats easier - move your thumb or entire arm?
  - dzhiurgis 3y ago
    Turn signals on wheel is fire. Drive mode I'm not too sure, only drove for few minutes.
epistasis 3y ago