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This may be related as well, in a smaller way: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/would-be-tesla-buyers-snub-company-musks-reputation-dips-20

This may be related as well, in a smaller way: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/would-be-tesla-buyers-snub-company-musks-reputation-dips-2024-04-01/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/would-...

epistasis 3y ago
I ask owners of other EV vehicles how they like their car, and >50% of my sample size of ~10 bring up "at least it's not owned by that crazy man" as a big reason as they explain the other deficiencies. (Mostly bad controls, UX, etc. stuff that the Tesla gets right.) I have a Tesla Model 3 right now and it's my favorite car ever, by far, but I also will be unlikely to buy another tesla. It's not the same company as six years ago.
- brtkdotse 3y ago
  I chose a Kia eNiro because it had ”bad” but predictable controls/UX. Basically a normal, boring car with dedicated buttons for most things, but with a EV drivetrain.
  - Stratoscope 3y ago
    Same with my Kia EV6. After driving my old Kia Rondo for 15 years, I felt right at home in the EV6. Traditional stalks for lights and wipers, all kinds of dedicated buttons, familiar and comfortable. Kia went to quite some work to make it feel like a regular car.
- ein0p 3y ago
  Funny, I'm considering buying our second Tesla (to replace my BMW) because the company _is_ run by Musk. I'm also big fan of not dictating what other people should say, and find his direct communication style refreshing, even though I disagree with some of his opinions. And that's before we even bring up several other areas where he's successfully doing civilizationally impactful work.
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
    >even though I disagree with some of his opinions Let me guess, nothing that's part his core believes?
    - ein0p 3y ago
      Yes, I do believe our species needs to be multiplanetary, internet should be available everywhere, electric cars need to take over, and paralyzed people should be able to walk again.
      - mschuster91 3y ago
        We share the same goals (except for electric cars needing to take over - they do, but the real issue is that public mass transit needs to take over!), but the methods / the lengths Elon Musk is willing to go to in pursuit of those goals are disturbing to many people.
        ein0p 3y ago
        I don't think public mass transit will take over in the US in my lifetime, outside major cities. We're just too spread out, and a lot of us, especially people with kids, like it that way. Mass transit absolutely, positively does not work in the US if you have at least one child.
        ericmay 3y ago
        > Mass transit absolutely, positively does not work in the US if you have at least one child. Kind of a confusing statement. Sure the current state doesn't work in the US, which is because it isn't designed to work and there is little to no investment or money spent on public transit. You can know that this is factually true by looking at your state department of highways budgets and examining how funds are allocated. It does work in other countries, including countries that have parents with children. There is no logistical or cost-based reason it won't or couldn't work in the US. Nothing special about "spread out" - which is another choice we intentionally make or the size of the country. It's also mostly untrue since most of the population in the US lives in urban areas. Suburban areas can just continue to grow as is and become more dense while preserving SFHs.
- nobleach 3y ago
  You have basically found the Reddit /r/technology contingency. Most stories I see there are laughing at a single man's failures. There's just a lot of hate. I wanted a Tesla because other friends and family let me ride in theirs. I liked the car. I also like Chick-fil-a Chicken, and Papa Johns Pizza. From time to time, I visit Hobby Lobby. If I did digging on EVERY CEO, and found things that I disagreed with, I'd likely have few places left to shop. Instead, I try to focus on the other "non-crazy" folks that work at these places. When it comes to Tesla technology... it's actually really good.
  - epistasis 3y ago
    I don't know anything about r/technology, but I do know that Musk has alienated his core customer base, and is continually making massive noise about politics, unlike most other CEOs. And even more stupidly, he is aligning with an anti-EV, anti-solar, anti-energy storage political faction in his attempt to alienate early adopters. Makes him seem extremely weak and self-hating. And that's before all the bad decisions in the direction of the product over the past six years. Musk's made a great product far worse by being so involved and making boldly bad decisions left and right.
- kllrnohj 3y ago
  > Mostly bad controls, UX, etc. stuff that the Tesla gets right. What? Tesla's controls are ass. They're infotainment responsiveness is great, but the turn signal steering wheel buttons, windshield wipers, drive mode select, etc... are all absolutely horrible. It's literally the reason we passed on the Model 3 & S when shopping for an EV. The extra 20-60 miles of range wasn't worth it to put up with that nonsense.
  - e36 3y ago
    That's just for the cars with that yoke steering wheel, right? The controls for the more "normal" cars is pretty intuitive. Except for headlights. I don't know why it couldn't just have a switch for headlights.
    - kllrnohj 3y ago
      No, it's for all of them. The Model 3 was updated to also have the stalks taken away and the PRND controls moved to the roof https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_eu/GUID-A5F2B9D0-E7C8-40F5-9642-58F3657B123E.html https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_eu/GUID-A5F2B9D...
      - e36 3y ago
        Whoa, that seems like so much more work to manage and use than the current standard.
        dzhiurgis 3y ago
        Opposite. Think about whats easier - move your thumb or entire arm?
      - dzhiurgis 3y ago
        Turn signals on wheel is fire. Drive mode I'm not too sure, only drove for few minutes.
  - epistasis 3y ago
denysvitali 3y ago
> It's very likely that Musk himself is contributing to the reputational downfall This. I really like Tesla as a brand, but Musk should really stop over-promising and under-delivering. Their technology is really good, but far away from the promises of their CEO.
- MrMan 3y ago
  [dead]
- Difwif 3y ago
  Elon has always done that during the time Tesla was gaining popularity. It seems somewhere between pedo-diver and Twitter take over his public perception started taking a nose dive. I agree though I still want to see Tesla succeed.
- eptcyka 3y ago
  It almost feels like he's just overpromising to get other car companies to miss what is the USP of a Tesla vehicle - the efficiency. The autopilot nonsense is criminal, but the fact that VW group, Mercedes nor any Japanese manufacturer can't hold a candle to the upper limit of 4 miles per kilowatt. If a model 3 was within my budget, I'd get it despite of the lack of a good radar-guided cruise control, despite the lack of buttons to engage drive, despite the lack of a HUD and mechanical buttons for climate controls. And despite the moron at the helm. All of that since it is the most efficient car on the market as far as I can tell.
  - cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
    My non-Tesla EV hit its advertised range out of the factory, and hasn’t meaningfully shifted in the 2-3 years I’ve owned it. Literally every Tesla owner I know complains about not getting the range they thought they were buying. More than one has switched away because of it. Speak all you want about Tesla’s efficiency, but it’s hardly a meaningful USP against the absolute bad taste left in one’s mouth after hypeman Elon yet again under-delivers.
  - trogdor 3y ago
efrafa 3y ago
I wanted a Tesla, but I couldn’t inage buying one with Musk as CEO.
- coldpie 3y ago
  Yeah. Ten years ago it was the cool, new brand. Now it's what you buy when you want to rep an insane drug addict transphobe's fall from grace. I'm looking to buy a Hyundai later this year.
  - leetharris 3y ago
    > Now it's what you buy when you want to rep an insane drug addict transphobe's fall from grace. Drug addict? You mean his ketamine for depression? And when you buy a car are you "representing" the CEO's views? What are the CEO of Hyundai's personal beliefs? Do you even know?
    - rrix2 3y ago
      The CEO of Hyundai hasn't bought a media company to put his mistaken beliefs and bad habits in front of millions of people.
    - lttlrck 3y ago
      > Do you even know? I think that's the point?
    - mikestew 3y ago
      What are the CEO of Hyundai's personal beliefs? Do you even know? Unlike Musk, the CEO of Hyundai doesn't go out of their way to make sure I'm aware of their opinions. I don't even know the name of Hyundai's CEO, and we bought an Ioniq 5 last year. One might argue such a dichotomy is one of the reasons we didn't buy a Tesla (well, that and the crap build quality).
- NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
  I know that the plural of "anecdote" isn't "data", but ... I ended up with a Polestar because I got a fantastic lease deal but my wife literally wouldn't countenance buying a Tesla because of Musk.
redox99 3y ago
I doubt it, as it would have equally affected previous quarters.
- r00fus 3y ago
  It could be that there were things positive going for Tesla, but the Elon thing finally outweigh the positives or the positives essentially evaporated, leaving only this negative.
- rsynnott 3y ago
  I mean, he's been pretty bad for a while, but he's definitely been going downhill rapidly over the last year or so. I'm expecting full-blown Howard Hughes-ian behaviour by about 2025.

epistasis 3y ago

I ask owners of other EV vehicles how they like their car, and >50% of my sample size of ~10 bring up "at least it's not owned by that crazy man" as a big reason as they explain the other deficiencies. (Mostly bad controls, UX, etc. stuff that the Tesla gets right.) I have a Tesla Model 3 right now and it's my favorite car ever, by far, but I also will be unlikely to buy another tesla. It's not the same company as six years ago.

brtkdotse 3y ago
I chose a Kia eNiro because it had ”bad” but predictable controls/UX. Basically a normal, boring car with dedicated buttons for most things, but with a EV drivetrain.
- Stratoscope 3y ago
  Same with my Kia EV6. After driving my old Kia Rondo for 15 years, I felt right at home in the EV6. Traditional stalks for lights and wipers, all kinds of dedicated buttons, familiar and comfortable. Kia went to quite some work to make it feel like a regular car.
ein0p 3y ago
Funny, I'm considering buying our second Tesla (to replace my BMW) because the company _is_ run by Musk. I'm also big fan of not dictating what other people should say, and find his direct communication style refreshing, even though I disagree with some of his opinions. And that's before we even bring up several other areas where he's successfully doing civilizationally impactful work.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
  >even though I disagree with some of his opinions Let me guess, nothing that's part his core believes?
  - ein0p 3y ago
    Yes, I do believe our species needs to be multiplanetary, internet should be available everywhere, electric cars need to take over, and paralyzed people should be able to walk again.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      We share the same goals (except for electric cars needing to take over - they do, but the real issue is that public mass transit needs to take over!), but the methods / the lengths Elon Musk is willing to go to in pursuit of those goals are disturbing to many people.
      - ein0p 3y ago
        I don't think public mass transit will take over in the US in my lifetime, outside major cities. We're just too spread out, and a lot of us, especially people with kids, like it that way. Mass transit absolutely, positively does not work in the US if you have at least one child.
        ericmay 3y ago
        > Mass transit absolutely, positively does not work in the US if you have at least one child. Kind of a confusing statement. Sure the current state doesn't work in the US, which is because it isn't designed to work and there is little to no investment or money spent on public transit. You can know that this is factually true by looking at your state department of highways budgets and examining how funds are allocated. It does work in other countries, including countries that have parents with children. There is no logistical or cost-based reason it won't or couldn't work in the US. Nothing special about "spread out" - which is another choice we intentionally make or the size of the country. It's also mostly untrue since most of the population in the US lives in urban areas. Suburban areas can just continue to grow as is and become more dense while preserving SFHs.
nobleach 3y ago
You have basically found the Reddit /r/technology contingency. Most stories I see there are laughing at a single man's failures. There's just a lot of hate. I wanted a Tesla because other friends and family let me ride in theirs. I liked the car. I also like Chick-fil-a Chicken, and Papa Johns Pizza. From time to time, I visit Hobby Lobby. If I did digging on EVERY CEO, and found things that I disagreed with, I'd likely have few places left to shop. Instead, I try to focus on the other "non-crazy" folks that work at these places. When it comes to Tesla technology... it's actually really good.
- epistasis 3y ago
  I don't know anything about r/technology, but I do know that Musk has alienated his core customer base, and is continually making massive noise about politics, unlike most other CEOs. And even more stupidly, he is aligning with an anti-EV, anti-solar, anti-energy storage political faction in his attempt to alienate early adopters. Makes him seem extremely weak and self-hating. And that's before all the bad decisions in the direction of the product over the past six years. Musk's made a great product far worse by being so involved and making boldly bad decisions left and right.
kllrnohj 3y ago
> Mostly bad controls, UX, etc. stuff that the Tesla gets right. What? Tesla's controls are ass. They're infotainment responsiveness is great, but the turn signal steering wheel buttons, windshield wipers, drive mode select, etc... are all absolutely horrible. It's literally the reason we passed on the Model 3 & S when shopping for an EV. The extra 20-60 miles of range wasn't worth it to put up with that nonsense.
- e36 3y ago
  That's just for the cars with that yoke steering wheel, right? The controls for the more "normal" cars is pretty intuitive. Except for headlights. I don't know why it couldn't just have a switch for headlights.
  - kllrnohj 3y ago
    No, it's for all of them. The Model 3 was updated to also have the stalks taken away and the PRND controls moved to the roof https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_eu/GUID-A5F2B9D0-E7C8-40F5-9642-58F3657B123E.html https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_eu/GUID-A5F2B9D...
    - e36 3y ago
      Whoa, that seems like so much more work to manage and use than the current standard.
      - dzhiurgis 3y ago
        Opposite. Think about whats easier - move your thumb or entire arm?
    - dzhiurgis 3y ago
      Turn signals on wheel is fire. Drive mode I'm not too sure, only drove for few minutes.
- epistasis 3y ago

denysvitali 3y ago

> It's very likely that Musk himself is contributing to the reputational downfall This. I really like Tesla as a brand, but Musk should really stop over-promising and under-delivering. Their technology is really good, but far away from the promises of their CEO.

MrMan 3y ago
[dead]
Difwif 3y ago
Elon has always done that during the time Tesla was gaining popularity. It seems somewhere between pedo-diver and Twitter take over his public perception started taking a nose dive. I agree though I still want to see Tesla succeed.
eptcyka 3y ago
It almost feels like he's just overpromising to get other car companies to miss what is the USP of a Tesla vehicle - the efficiency. The autopilot nonsense is criminal, but the fact that VW group, Mercedes nor any Japanese manufacturer can't hold a candle to the upper limit of 4 miles per kilowatt. If a model 3 was within my budget, I'd get it despite of the lack of a good radar-guided cruise control, despite the lack of buttons to engage drive, despite the lack of a HUD and mechanical buttons for climate controls. And despite the moron at the helm. All of that since it is the most efficient car on the market as far as I can tell.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
  My non-Tesla EV hit its advertised range out of the factory, and hasn’t meaningfully shifted in the 2-3 years I’ve owned it. Literally every Tesla owner I know complains about not getting the range they thought they were buying. More than one has switched away because of it. Speak all you want about Tesla’s efficiency, but it’s hardly a meaningful USP against the absolute bad taste left in one’s mouth after hypeman Elon yet again under-delivers.
- trogdor 3y ago

efrafa 3y ago

I wanted a Tesla, but I couldn’t inage buying one with Musk as CEO.

coldpie 3y ago
Yeah. Ten years ago it was the cool, new brand. Now it's what you buy when you want to rep an insane drug addict transphobe's fall from grace. I'm looking to buy a Hyundai later this year.
- leetharris 3y ago
  > Now it's what you buy when you want to rep an insane drug addict transphobe's fall from grace. Drug addict? You mean his ketamine for depression? And when you buy a car are you "representing" the CEO's views? What are the CEO of Hyundai's personal beliefs? Do you even know?
  - rrix2 3y ago
    The CEO of Hyundai hasn't bought a media company to put his mistaken beliefs and bad habits in front of millions of people.
  - lttlrck 3y ago
    > Do you even know? I think that's the point?
  - mikestew 3y ago
    What are the CEO of Hyundai's personal beliefs? Do you even know? Unlike Musk, the CEO of Hyundai doesn't go out of their way to make sure I'm aware of their opinions. I don't even know the name of Hyundai's CEO, and we bought an Ioniq 5 last year. One might argue such a dichotomy is one of the reasons we didn't buy a Tesla (well, that and the crap build quality).
NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
I know that the plural of "anecdote" isn't "data", but ... I ended up with a Polestar because I got a fantastic lease deal but my wife literally wouldn't countenance buying a Tesla because of Musk.

redox99 3y ago

I doubt it, as it would have equally affected previous quarters.

r00fus 3y ago
It could be that there were things positive going for Tesla, but the Elon thing finally outweigh the positives or the positives essentially evaporated, leaving only this negative.
rsynnott 3y ago
I mean, he's been pretty bad for a while, but he's definitely been going downhill rapidly over the last year or so. I'm expecting full-blown Howard Hughes-ian behaviour by about 2025.