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> he can simply get a loan I'll go out on a limb to say that loans (famous for needing to be paid back) are not the way to fund an idea which is not likely to

> he can simply get a loan I'll go out on a limb to say that loans (famous for needing to be paid back) are not the way to fund an idea which is not likely to be successful. Funding a startup requires you to find money that doesn't require you to be liable if things don't work out. That's why it's more complicated than finding money "just there on the street waiting to be picked up." You actually need to convince people you have an idea that might succeed, so they're willing to risk their cash.

wsoczynski_they 3y ago
Well, that is my whole point - do you research, talk with people, understand willingness to pay to be confident that it is worth to pursue your idea. So many times, looking for a technical co-founder is caused by the fact that the "business founder" doesn't know how to verify the idea otherwise that by building the actual product. Hence being in the black about the market for such product, they obviously want someone to do it "for free" as the risk is high. Anyone who did a solid research and even sold his product to people before it even existed won't be worried about putting their own money or taking a loan to finance the development.
- TuringNYC 3y ago
  >> Hence being in the black about the market for such product, they obviously want someone to do it "for free" as the risk is high. This is spot on -- many Business Co-Founders want to borrow -- but they want someone else to borrow (their time, their effort) and take the risk. The risk needs to be transferred back equally to all co-founders. If only one person is taking the majority of the upfront risk, this isnt a co-founder situation! I once met a "Business" Co-Founder who "Personally Guaranteed" this business would succeed if I did 3mo of upfront work. He followed me around at multiple events in NY and kept insisting. I retorted if he was so sure, why not take a HELOC and pay for the technical PoC/MVP?
- bastawhiz 3y ago
  > Anyone who did a solid research and even sold his product to people before it even existed won't be worried about putting their own money or taking a loan to finance the development. Maybe it's just me being overly pragmatic, but if you're willing to personally secure a loan to build a startup that will probably fail, I personally find you too reckless/unintelligent/misguided to work with. Whether you get the money from a bank as a loan or from investors genuinely doesn't matter (money is definitionally fungible), what matters is that you can procure it. If you can't convince any investors to work with you and you have to take a loan out to cover the costs, that's an unimaginably large red flag and a sign of foolishness.
TuringNYC 3y ago
I think the Business Co-Founder getting a loan is a fantastic idea, and I've suggested it many times. Basically, each co-founder needs skin in the game, not one -- both. The technical co-founder is contributing $70k to 100k of time assuming 3mo of effort -- they are also "borrowing"...from an uncertain future. They have obvious skin in the game. The business co-founder needs equal skin in the game. The best would be to go pre-sell the idea. But if they cannot do that, what are they brining to the table?

wsoczynski_they 3y ago

Well, that is my whole point - do you research, talk with people, understand willingness to pay to be confident that it is worth to pursue your idea. So many times, looking for a technical co-founder is caused by the fact that the "business founder" doesn't know how to verify the idea otherwise that by building the actual product. Hence being in the black about the market for such product, they obviously want someone to do it "for free" as the risk is high. Anyone who did a solid research and even sold his product to people before it even existed won't be worried about putting their own money or taking a loan to finance the development.

TuringNYC 3y ago
>> Hence being in the black about the market for such product, they obviously want someone to do it "for free" as the risk is high. This is spot on -- many Business Co-Founders want to borrow -- but they want someone else to borrow (their time, their effort) and take the risk. The risk needs to be transferred back equally to all co-founders. If only one person is taking the majority of the upfront risk, this isnt a co-founder situation! I once met a "Business" Co-Founder who "Personally Guaranteed" this business would succeed if I did 3mo of upfront work. He followed me around at multiple events in NY and kept insisting. I retorted if he was so sure, why not take a HELOC and pay for the technical PoC/MVP?
bastawhiz 3y ago
> Anyone who did a solid research and even sold his product to people before it even existed won't be worried about putting their own money or taking a loan to finance the development. Maybe it's just me being overly pragmatic, but if you're willing to personally secure a loan to build a startup that will probably fail, I personally find you too reckless/unintelligent/misguided to work with. Whether you get the money from a bank as a loan or from investors genuinely doesn't matter (money is definitionally fungible), what matters is that you can procure it. If you can't convince any investors to work with you and you have to take a loan out to cover the costs, that's an unimaginably large red flag and a sign of foolishness.

TuringNYC 3y ago

I think the Business Co-Founder getting a loan is a fantastic idea, and I've suggested it many times. Basically, each co-founder needs skin in the game, not one -- both. The technical co-founder is contributing $70k to 100k of time assuming 3mo of effort -- they are also "borrowing"...from an uncertain future. They have obvious skin in the game. The business co-founder needs equal skin in the game. The best would be to go pre-sell the idea. But if they cannot do that, what are they brining to the table?