3 ms·

I am reminded of a chat I had with the founder of https://www.clump.org/ https://www.clump.org/ , trying to do paper backups as a service.

sebstefan 3y ago
That's a very fun idea. I would really love for the blog to get filled with content because the economics of it fill me with questions I'd love to see how mechanized you can get it as well
OJFord 3y ago
Surely the manufacturing process for paper uses more carbon than was extracted from the atmosphere by the former tree? Or have I misunderstood the idea here/it's not regular paper?
- boxed 3y ago
  Paper manufacturing isn't very carbon intensive. Paper mills for example look great on environmentalist scare-propaganda, but the big clouds of smoke are almost 100% water vapor :P The mills themselves burn lignin for power and even export it.
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Interesting one, also for storing records long term. Paper isn't ideal but if it's stored properly and there's no fire / water damage, it'll last for a hundred years easily, after that I believe paper gets fragile etc. But I'm sure there's modern day manufacturing and storage processes that can make it longer lasting, like including plastics or something in the paper, cool environment, and draining oxygen from the environment or replacing air with nitrogen, which can be done passively (a box type storage unit, fill with nitrogen, no pressure needed as nitrogen is heavier than air I believe). But anyway, that's a lot of effort for relatively data-loose (not-dense) information and a lot of ideas for an industry (physical archiving) that's been around for hundreds if not thousands of years already.
- itronitron 3y ago
  For long term storage you could laser etch metal or stone plates. Then when you wanted to scan a copy you would first print the etched plates with ink onto paper.

3 ms·

I am reminded of a chat I had with the founder of https://www.clump.org/ https://www.clump.org/ , trying to do paper backups as a service.

by CalRobert 3y ago

sebstefan 3y ago
That's a very fun idea. I would really love for the blog to get filled with content because the economics of it fill me with questions I'd love to see how mechanized you can get it as well
OJFord 3y ago
Surely the manufacturing process for paper uses more carbon than was extracted from the atmosphere by the former tree? Or have I misunderstood the idea here/it's not regular paper?
- boxed 3y ago
  Paper manufacturing isn't very carbon intensive. Paper mills for example look great on environmentalist scare-propaganda, but the big clouds of smoke are almost 100% water vapor :P The mills themselves burn lignin for power and even export it.
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Interesting one, also for storing records long term. Paper isn't ideal but if it's stored properly and there's no fire / water damage, it'll last for a hundred years easily, after that I believe paper gets fragile etc. But I'm sure there's modern day manufacturing and storage processes that can make it longer lasting, like including plastics or something in the paper, cool environment, and draining oxygen from the environment or replacing air with nitrogen, which can be done passively (a box type storage unit, fill with nitrogen, no pressure needed as nitrogen is heavier than air I believe). But anyway, that's a lot of effort for relatively data-loose (not-dense) information and a lot of ideas for an industry (physical archiving) that's been around for hundreds if not thousands of years already.
- itronitron 3y ago
  For long term storage you could laser etch metal or stone plates. Then when you wanted to scan a copy you would first print the etched plates with ink onto paper.