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The means of production is under democratic control. Just try seizing the means to produce something outside of the controlled boundaries as defined by the demo

The means of production is under democratic control. Just try seizing the means to produce something outside of the controlled boundaries as defined by the democracy, like, say, moonshine, and see how far you get. But democracy is really hard work. The vast majority of people would rather let someone else do it so that they can play with the kids, hang out with friends at the bar, hit the gym, etc. instead. They don't even want to get involved with other democratic concerns, let alone try to watch over capital. And, frankly, who can blame them? As such, that means that you are still going to need an individual or small group of people to take over the day-to-day control of the means. Congratulations, you just invented "private ownership".

tehjoker 3y ago
you misunderstand representative democracy. an executive committee can still be recalled by the relevant democratic body and is responsible to them. this is a very very different relationship than simple profit motive and employment.
- randomdata 3y ago
  There is no alien overlord. The democratic body controls all that which involves human activity. Any executive committees, profiteers, or employees are merely an extension allowed by the democracy, that can be reshaped by the whims of the democracy at any point. There is a difference between those things, but only because the democracy does not find a need to have the same level of scrutiny over all things. It turns out democracy is really hard work and there is only so much time in the day. The democratic people by and large would rather do other things with their life than spend it practicing democracy. They don't want direct control over much of anything, hence the extensions that have been offered, to varying degrees of oversight depending on importance to the standing democracy.
  - tehjoker 3y ago
    They do want the ability to recall people that act against their interest! That's not possible under corporate dictatorship.
    - randomdata 3y ago
      Of course it is possible. What would stop it? An alien is not going to fly down from space to put a stop to it. Nothing can stop it other than people, and those people are the democracy. They are not going to stop themselves. But, it would require putting in the work to make happen. Which they don't want to do. People, and therefore democracies, don't like to put in work unless they absolutely have to. And in this case, why would they have to? There is really no good reason to put in the work. The people that could be recalled are there because the democracy wants them to be. Recalling them for no reason would be kind of silly.
      - tehjoker 3y ago
        This is a very pessimistic view of human nature and in my view simply wrong. Much of the time people don't want to put in work, but when there is a significant wrong and people are impacted, they will do the work if the avenue is there. If you don't even believe that, then you are throwing out the entire liberal idea of state elections.
        randomdata 3y ago
        > but when there is a significant wrong and people are impacted, they will do the work Of course. I even said as much in the previous comment. But I also said there is no reason to put in the work. The work needing to be done was given away to other people for good reason and the democracy wants to keep it that way. If that changes, things will change, but until then...

tehjoker 3y ago

you misunderstand representative democracy. an executive committee can still be recalled by the relevant democratic body and is responsible to them. this is a very very different relationship than simple profit motive and employment.

randomdata 3y ago
There is no alien overlord. The democratic body controls all that which involves human activity. Any executive committees, profiteers, or employees are merely an extension allowed by the democracy, that can be reshaped by the whims of the democracy at any point. There is a difference between those things, but only because the democracy does not find a need to have the same level of scrutiny over all things. It turns out democracy is really hard work and there is only so much time in the day. The democratic people by and large would rather do other things with their life than spend it practicing democracy. They don't want direct control over much of anything, hence the extensions that have been offered, to varying degrees of oversight depending on importance to the standing democracy.
- tehjoker 3y ago
  They do want the ability to recall people that act against their interest! That's not possible under corporate dictatorship.
  - randomdata 3y ago
    Of course it is possible. What would stop it? An alien is not going to fly down from space to put a stop to it. Nothing can stop it other than people, and those people are the democracy. They are not going to stop themselves. But, it would require putting in the work to make happen. Which they don't want to do. People, and therefore democracies, don't like to put in work unless they absolutely have to. And in this case, why would they have to? There is really no good reason to put in the work. The people that could be recalled are there because the democracy wants them to be. Recalling them for no reason would be kind of silly.
    - tehjoker 3y ago
      This is a very pessimistic view of human nature and in my view simply wrong. Much of the time people don't want to put in work, but when there is a significant wrong and people are impacted, they will do the work if the avenue is there. If you don't even believe that, then you are throwing out the entire liberal idea of state elections.
      - randomdata 3y ago
        > but when there is a significant wrong and people are impacted, they will do the work Of course. I even said as much in the previous comment. But I also said there is no reason to put in the work. The work needing to be done was given away to other people for good reason and the democracy wants to keep it that way. If that changes, things will change, but until then...