4 ms·

Only in the warped, "5 years is ancient!" sort of compressed timeframe of consumer electronics. It's not hard at all to find a wide range of parts for 20-30 ye

by Syonyk 3y ago

Only in the warped, "5 years is ancient!" sort of compressed timeframe of consumer electronics. It's not hard at all to find a wide range of parts for 20-30 year old vehicles - though quite a bit of this is due to the OEM not being able to lock down physical parts. I expect it will be far harder to maintain current cars in 30 years than a 1990s car today, due to exactly this issue: "Well, we don't build parts, but you also can't replace a door handle with one that doesn't support VIN-pairing, and you can't use a used one because it's VIN-pared to that other car so... would you like a loyalty discount on a new one?"

dwighttk 3y ago
Some vehicles… and they originally cost at least an order of magnitude more
threeseed 3y ago
The analogy to a car is a poor one. Your phone has all your personal information and has the ability to record conversations or take video. All of which is secured on the assumption that you can’t just replace a component with a compromised one. And we do know that sophisticated state actors do exist and are willing to go after journalists, dissidents even protestors. We need a way for these devices to be repaired or supported longer but allowing any random component is not the answer.
- hagbard_c 3y ago
  > allowing any random component is not the answer. Leave that up to the owners of the device, they know better what they want than you do. Will there be scam attempts? Sure there will, like there are already. Inform about that risk - without exaggerating for monetary purposes - and let the customer decide. Not you, not the manufacturer, not the government.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    How would owners possibly know that a compromised component has been added ? And we have decades of experience that the majority of people simply do not care enough to learn about the intricacies of their products and would prefer vendors do that on their behalf.
    - hagbard_c 3y ago
      > How would owners possibly know that a compromised component has been added ? Some will, some won't. They don't need you or some other individual or company or institution to decide for them they are too ignorant to decide for themselves where to go for replacement parts. If you're so worried over these problems just take the thing to Apple to have it repaired but leave open the option for others to get their own parts and repair it themselves or have someone repair it for them. The same goes for anyone else, it is not as if the option to use 'authorised' repair services will disappear.
doug_durham 3y ago
Or it could be that the addressable audience is larger for OEM car parts. Many more people have the hand tools necessary to work on cars. Not many people have ball grid desolderers needed to replace chips in highly dense pocket electronics.
- Syonyk 3y ago
  No. Most people don't. Just like most people don't work on their cars themselves anymore. But it still has an impact on "cost of paying someone to do it." If you can only take your car to the dealer, it's a lot more expensive than independent shops. Also, have you worked on electronics much? Very rarely is the problem something that requires BGA rework.
giantrobot 3y ago
Cars that are 30 years old don't connect to the Internet in general or cellular networks specifically (for core functionality). Desire as they might, Nokia couldn't meaningfully support a 3360 today. There's no AMPS or IS-136 networks for the phone to connect to. Dell doesn't support thirty year old OptiPlex PCs, Intel doesn't support thirty year old CPUs. These don't have any serial pairings, they're just old and long out of production. Ford isn't going to support a thirty year old Mustang either. Part manufacturers might still make compatible parts but that's more about sub-components being shared among many years of product models. You could find a power supply for an old OptiPlex because it uses an ATX connector on the motherboard. You might find a NOS battery for a 3360 but that's only because a battery conformed to a spec shared among many models. Out of support smartphones will see their certificate roots expire making using the Internet not practical. This is true of Android and iOS. I don't know why ten years of active support for a very complicated device somehow isn't good enough.

by Syonyk 3y ago

dwighttk 3y ago

Some vehicles… and they originally cost at least an order of magnitude more

threeseed 3y ago

The analogy to a car is a poor one. Your phone has all your personal information and has the ability to record conversations or take video. All of which is secured on the assumption that you can’t just replace a component with a compromised one. And we do know that sophisticated state actors do exist and are willing to go after journalists, dissidents even protestors. We need a way for these devices to be repaired or supported longer but allowing any random component is not the answer.

hagbard_c 3y ago
> allowing any random component is not the answer. Leave that up to the owners of the device, they know better what they want than you do. Will there be scam attempts? Sure there will, like there are already. Inform about that risk - without exaggerating for monetary purposes - and let the customer decide. Not you, not the manufacturer, not the government.
- threeseed 3y ago
  How would owners possibly know that a compromised component has been added ? And we have decades of experience that the majority of people simply do not care enough to learn about the intricacies of their products and would prefer vendors do that on their behalf.
  - hagbard_c 3y ago
    > How would owners possibly know that a compromised component has been added ? Some will, some won't. They don't need you or some other individual or company or institution to decide for them they are too ignorant to decide for themselves where to go for replacement parts. If you're so worried over these problems just take the thing to Apple to have it repaired but leave open the option for others to get their own parts and repair it themselves or have someone repair it for them. The same goes for anyone else, it is not as if the option to use 'authorised' repair services will disappear.

doug_durham 3y ago

Or it could be that the addressable audience is larger for OEM car parts. Many more people have the hand tools necessary to work on cars. Not many people have ball grid desolderers needed to replace chips in highly dense pocket electronics.

Syonyk 3y ago
No. Most people don't. Just like most people don't work on their cars themselves anymore. But it still has an impact on "cost of paying someone to do it." If you can only take your car to the dealer, it's a lot more expensive than independent shops. Also, have you worked on electronics much? Very rarely is the problem something that requires BGA rework.

giantrobot 3y ago

Cars that are 30 years old don't connect to the Internet in general or cellular networks specifically (for core functionality). Desire as they might, Nokia couldn't meaningfully support a 3360 today. There's no AMPS or IS-136 networks for the phone to connect to. Dell doesn't support thirty year old OptiPlex PCs, Intel doesn't support thirty year old CPUs. These don't have any serial pairings, they're just old and long out of production. Ford isn't going to support a thirty year old Mustang either. Part manufacturers might still make compatible parts but that's more about sub-components being shared among many years of product models. You could find a power supply for an old OptiPlex because it uses an ATX connector on the motherboard. You might find a NOS battery for a 3360 but that's only because a battery conformed to a spec shared among many models. Out of support smartphones will see their certificate roots expire making using the Internet not practical. This is true of Android and iOS. I don't know why ten years of active support for a very complicated device somehow isn't good enough.