6 ms·

Havana syndrome: Report links mystery illness to Russian intelligence unit

30 points by throwmemoney 3y ago

edgyquant 3y ago
Didnt we just have a thread full of people laughing at how made up this disease was? Wasn’t there some report about that previously, just maybe a month ago? And this “report” seems to be by 3 news organizations.
hunglee2 3y ago
Interesting to see how this story is now being propagated throughout the media, accruing credibility along the way. Prior to the 60 minutes documentary, the latest on this story was that in March 2023, 7 US intelligence agencies reported that "available intelligence consistently points against the involvement of US adversaries in causing the reported incidents" and that a foreign adversary's involvement was "very unlikely" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome
- swores 3y ago
  Hard to guess if that means the reporting is based on propaganda to make Russia look bad vs. US agencies not wanting to admit to the world that Russia has a weapon they can't yet protect against. Both seem equally plausible to me.
  - ein0p 3y ago
    For this to be “equally plausible” you’d first have to offer a plausible hypothesis of how such a weapon could operate. Last time this came up nothing even remotely plausible was offered.
    - swores 3y ago
      I'm no expert on weaponry but isn't there a long history of countries inventing weapons that other countries assumed weren't possible until they saw their use?
      - ein0p 3y ago
        [flagged]
        maximinus_thrax 3y ago
        > the collective West is unable to even hypothesize the nature of over the course of 8 years of investigation Another hypothesis is that 'the west' is unable or unwilling to publicly disclose what they found, maybe to not further escalate the conflict. > manufacture consent ahead of $60B “foreign aid” vote Consent for what? Is the foreign aid vote a referendum? You seem very passionate about this subject and judging by some of your previous comments on the matter you are holding a heavy bias. I don't believe there is any argument or piece of proof to change your view. Therefore, I don't believe it's worth for anyone to engage with you on this subject. Just wanted to call this out.
        ein0p 3y ago
        Are you certain I’m the one with the “bias” here? Let me quote ODNI from a couple of year ago: “ There is no one explanation for these incidents. Instead, there are many different possible causes including environmental as well as social factors and preexisting medical conditions.” Unless you believe that ODNI is full of Putin stooges, there isn’t a lot of room for any “bias” tinfoil here.
        maximinus_thrax 3y ago
        > Are you certain I’m the one with the “bias” here? yes > Let me quote ODNI from a couple of year ago: Keywords 'couple of years ago'. Maybe it sounds shocking to some, but things can change over a couple of years, stuff can be researched, new data points can appear or dissapear, presidents get voted out, empires rise and fall within a couple of years.
        ein0p 3y ago
        [flagged]
ein0p 3y ago
[flagged]
- cduzz 3y ago
  Next I suppose you'll be proposing that all these random crashes and ransomware attacks are because of some stealth RCE in some low-level library that's used by 80% of the opensource ecosystem? Sheeple! In case my sarcasm is too subtle... The root cause of these issues is not known. There's some obvious value to having an undisclosed attack against "enemy agents" that's difficult to detect but that disables a very difficult to replace resource of "the enemy" There's every reason to believe that, for instance, if polonium vlad had access to such a tool he'd use it as much as possible. There's no concrete evidence of such a tool besides lots of incapacitated public servants / deep-state-bureaucrats (depending on your perspective?).
  - ein0p 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - cduzz 3y ago
      So if you're asking who stands to gain... If you look at the tedious nonsense you have to go through to join the foreign services, and how hard it is to actually get in, and how long it takes to get a station somewhere... I doubt anyone would play that long game just so they could then fake some illness when they could just fall off a ladder at their local supermarket. Similarly, if you've got some hypersonic death ray that incapacitates people from a distance and you can use it with impunity, why not use it on people who may or may not be in an adversary's intelligence service but are definitely employed by an adversary's government? Even if you get caught, what are they going to do, complain? I don't particularly think that it is little-green-men with a sonic blaster, but I also don't particularly think it's just complaining complainers making crap up. It's a mystery and I'm interested in finding the answer. I'm certainly not "smart enough" to know something nobody else knows.. See also: Lyme Disease; ulcers
StinkyTechBros 3y ago
[flagged]
qarl 3y ago
Weird how strongly some HN commenters feel that this story must be bullshit.
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
[dupe] More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39889517 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39889517
cjbenedikt 3y ago
What's today's date again?

30 points by throwmemoney 3y ago

Didnt we just have a thread full of people laughing at how made up this disease was? Wasn’t there some report about that previously, just maybe a month ago? And this “report” seems to be by 3 news organizations.

hunglee2 3y ago

Interesting to see how this story is now being propagated throughout the media, accruing credibility along the way. Prior to the 60 minutes documentary, the latest on this story was that in March 2023, 7 US intelligence agencies reported that "available intelligence consistently points against the involvement of US adversaries in causing the reported incidents" and that a foreign adversary's involvement was "very unlikely" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome

swores 3y ago
Hard to guess if that means the reporting is based on propaganda to make Russia look bad vs. US agencies not wanting to admit to the world that Russia has a weapon they can't yet protect against. Both seem equally plausible to me.
- ein0p 3y ago
  For this to be “equally plausible” you’d first have to offer a plausible hypothesis of how such a weapon could operate. Last time this came up nothing even remotely plausible was offered.
  - swores 3y ago
    I'm no expert on weaponry but isn't there a long history of countries inventing weapons that other countries assumed weren't possible until they saw their use?
    - ein0p 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - maximinus_thrax 3y ago
        > the collective West is unable to even hypothesize the nature of over the course of 8 years of investigation Another hypothesis is that 'the west' is unable or unwilling to publicly disclose what they found, maybe to not further escalate the conflict. > manufacture consent ahead of $60B “foreign aid” vote Consent for what? Is the foreign aid vote a referendum? You seem very passionate about this subject and judging by some of your previous comments on the matter you are holding a heavy bias. I don't believe there is any argument or piece of proof to change your view. Therefore, I don't believe it's worth for anyone to engage with you on this subject. Just wanted to call this out.
        ein0p 3y ago
        Are you certain I’m the one with the “bias” here? Let me quote ODNI from a couple of year ago: “ There is no one explanation for these incidents. Instead, there are many different possible causes including environmental as well as social factors and preexisting medical conditions.” Unless you believe that ODNI is full of Putin stooges, there isn’t a lot of room for any “bias” tinfoil here.
        maximinus_thrax 3y ago
        > Are you certain I’m the one with the “bias” here? yes > Let me quote ODNI from a couple of year ago: Keywords 'couple of years ago'. Maybe it sounds shocking to some, but things can change over a couple of years, stuff can be researched, new data points can appear or dissapear, presidents get voted out, empires rise and fall within a couple of years.
        ein0p 3y ago
        [flagged]

ein0p 3y ago

[flagged]

cduzz 3y ago
Next I suppose you'll be proposing that all these random crashes and ransomware attacks are because of some stealth RCE in some low-level library that's used by 80% of the opensource ecosystem? Sheeple! In case my sarcasm is too subtle... The root cause of these issues is not known. There's some obvious value to having an undisclosed attack against "enemy agents" that's difficult to detect but that disables a very difficult to replace resource of "the enemy" There's every reason to believe that, for instance, if polonium vlad had access to such a tool he'd use it as much as possible. There's no concrete evidence of such a tool besides lots of incapacitated public servants / deep-state-bureaucrats (depending on your perspective?).
- ein0p 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - cduzz 3y ago
    So if you're asking who stands to gain... If you look at the tedious nonsense you have to go through to join the foreign services, and how hard it is to actually get in, and how long it takes to get a station somewhere... I doubt anyone would play that long game just so they could then fake some illness when they could just fall off a ladder at their local supermarket. Similarly, if you've got some hypersonic death ray that incapacitates people from a distance and you can use it with impunity, why not use it on people who may or may not be in an adversary's intelligence service but are definitely employed by an adversary's government? Even if you get caught, what are they going to do, complain? I don't particularly think that it is little-green-men with a sonic blaster, but I also don't particularly think it's just complaining complainers making crap up. It's a mystery and I'm interested in finding the answer. I'm certainly not "smart enough" to know something nobody else knows.. See also: Lyme Disease; ulcers

StinkyTechBros 3y ago

[flagged]

qarl 3y ago

Weird how strongly some HN commenters feel that this story must be bullshit.

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

[dupe] More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39889517 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39889517

cjbenedikt 3y ago

What's today's date again?