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Bear in mind that you might see such parallels as unthinkable in the same way that someone of the time might have simply seen Debs as a 'anti-government insurre

Bear in mind that you might see such parallels as unthinkable in the same way that someone of the time might have simply seen Debs as a 'anti-government insurrectionist who would later turn to outright sedition.' Debs led strikes that turned into violent riots that resulted in dozens of people being killed and millions of dollars in damage, only finally being shut down by the Army. [1] And he was indeed also arrested for sedition after speaking out loudly against US participation in WW1, which at the time was being framed as the most noble of all wars imaginable - it was literally called "The War to End All Wars." Propaganda, like always. A quote from Stalin was that, "I know that after my death a pile of rubbish will be heaped on my grave, but the winds of history will sooner or later sweep it away without mercy." And I think that's probably true of many people. How we see things in one era often looks very different in the future -- you're left with just the big picture, less muddied by the liminalities and biases of the day. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Strike

lukan 3y ago
"A quote from Stalin was that, "I know that after my death a pile of rubbish will be heaped on my grave, but the winds of history will sooner or later sweep it away without mercy." And I think that's probably true of many people. How we see things in one era often looks very different in the future" If anything, Stalin has an even worse reputation today as in the years after his death. And I actually hope this won't change, as it would mean viewing mass murder and totalitarism in a good light again.
- sudosysgen 3y ago
  Public opinion of Stalin actually improved and are overall positive in many ex-communist states, and outside of the Western world opinion on Stalin is not terribly bad, or even positive, again depending on the country.
  - lukan 3y ago
    The only country I know, where Stalin is openly admired by a significant proportion of the population, is russia. "overall positive in many ex-communist states" So examples please?
kerkeslager 3y ago
Sure, propaganda has led people to believe all sorts of things, but importantly there were real events that really happened independent of people's opinions of them. I think we have a fundamental responsibility to fight against propaganda and fight for truth. Drawing a parallel between Donald Trump and Eugene Debs running for president from prison is an absurd comparison. Sure, it's true that Trump may end up running for president from prison just as Eugene Debs did, but that's possibly the only similarity between these two figures. Making this comparison, as if Donald Trump is some sort of fighter for workers, sounds awfully politically motivated.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- somenameforme 3y ago
  I'm not sure you'd really agree with what you're saying! The Pullman strike [1] wasn't a bunch of people walking off and then running around with signs. The initial strike was largely ineffectual, so the strikers started rioting and actively preventing other trains and workers from being able to operate, including with violence. In one instance within the riots a bridge was dynamited when soldiers in a train were crossing! These actions are exponentially more vile than anything Trump is being charged with, and Eugene Debs was overtly and actively at the head of these strikes/riots. He ended up serving 6 months in prison for it. Given the state of our justice system now a days, they would have tried to put him in prison for life. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Strike
  - kerkeslager 3y ago
    I would agree with what I'm saying, because what you are saying is simply not true. While not everyone in the strike remained peaceful, Debs himself was very firmly a believer in peaceful protest. From the link you posted, Debs said: > Strong men and broad minds only can resist the plutocracy and arrogant monopoly. Do not be frightened at troops, injunctions, or a subsidized press. Quit and remain firm. Commit no violence. American Railway Union will protect all, whether member or not when strike is off. Emphasis mine. Also notable, none of the things Debs was charged with were violent crimes. Don't link things that don't support your point as if they do. At best that means you didn't read it, and at worst you're being intentionally dishonest.

lukan 3y ago

"A quote from Stalin was that, "I know that after my death a pile of rubbish will be heaped on my grave, but the winds of history will sooner or later sweep it away without mercy." And I think that's probably true of many people. How we see things in one era often looks very different in the future" If anything, Stalin has an even worse reputation today as in the years after his death. And I actually hope this won't change, as it would mean viewing mass murder and totalitarism in a good light again.

sudosysgen 3y ago
Public opinion of Stalin actually improved and are overall positive in many ex-communist states, and outside of the Western world opinion on Stalin is not terribly bad, or even positive, again depending on the country.
- lukan 3y ago
  The only country I know, where Stalin is openly admired by a significant proportion of the population, is russia. "overall positive in many ex-communist states" So examples please?

kerkeslager 3y ago

Sure, propaganda has led people to believe all sorts of things, but importantly there were real events that really happened independent of people's opinions of them. I think we have a fundamental responsibility to fight against propaganda and fight for truth. Drawing a parallel between Donald Trump and Eugene Debs running for president from prison is an absurd comparison. Sure, it's true that Trump may end up running for president from prison just as Eugene Debs did, but that's possibly the only similarity between these two figures. Making this comparison, as if Donald Trump is some sort of fighter for workers, sounds awfully politically motivated.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
somenameforme 3y ago
I'm not sure you'd really agree with what you're saying! The Pullman strike [1] wasn't a bunch of people walking off and then running around with signs. The initial strike was largely ineffectual, so the strikers started rioting and actively preventing other trains and workers from being able to operate, including with violence. In one instance within the riots a bridge was dynamited when soldiers in a train were crossing! These actions are exponentially more vile than anything Trump is being charged with, and Eugene Debs was overtly and actively at the head of these strikes/riots. He ended up serving 6 months in prison for it. Given the state of our justice system now a days, they would have tried to put him in prison for life. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Strike
- kerkeslager 3y ago
  I would agree with what I'm saying, because what you are saying is simply not true. While not everyone in the strike remained peaceful, Debs himself was very firmly a believer in peaceful protest. From the link you posted, Debs said: > Strong men and broad minds only can resist the plutocracy and arrogant monopoly. Do not be frightened at troops, injunctions, or a subsidized press. Quit and remain firm. Commit no violence. American Railway Union will protect all, whether member or not when strike is off. Emphasis mine. Also notable, none of the things Debs was charged with were violent crimes. Don't link things that don't support your point as if they do. At best that means you didn't read it, and at worst you're being intentionally dishonest.