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>HN has previously [1] fallen for a claim by the same author to have reduced llama.cpp memory usage for a dense model way below the size of the model, which sho

>HN has previously [1] fallen for a claim by the same author to have reduced llama.cpp memory usage for a dense model way below the size of the model, which should have failed a basic smell test and indeed was debunked shortly after. Where did Justine claim this? The link you provided is Justine saying that she doesn't have an explanation for the reduction in RAM and that readers shouldn't treat it as fact yet: >The loading time performance has been a huge win for usability, and folks have been having the most wonderful reactions after using this change. But we don't have a compelling enough theory yet to explain the RAM usage miracle. So please don't get too excited just yet! Yes things are getting more awesome, but like all things in science a small amount of healthy skepticism is warranted. Was the link supposed to show the false claim or the debunking of the claim?

4bpp 3y ago
Plenty of claims about it, e.g. here as a "fact": https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/discussions/638#discussioncomment-5492916 https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/discussions/638#discu.... I don't think occasional expressions of lingering doubt (still couched among positive language like calling it a "miracle") can offset all the self-promotion that clearly seeks to maximise visibility of the implausible claim, even as it is attributed to others, as for example in https://twitter.com/JustineTunney/status/1641881145104297985?lang=en https://twitter.com/JustineTunney/status/1641881145104297985... . A cereal manufacturer would probably be held responsible for package text like "Fruity Loops cured my cancer! - John, 52, Kalamazoo" too.
- mtlynch 3y ago
  I don't read that as a claim of fact at all. From the link you shared: >Now, since my change is so new, it's possible my theory is wrong and this is just a bug. I don't actually understand the inner workings of LLaMA 30B well enough to know why it's sparse. I haven't followed her work closely, but based on the links you shared, she sounds like she's doing the opposite of self-promotion and making outrageous claims. She's sharing the fact that she's observed an improvement while also disclosing her doubts that it could be experimental error. That's how open-source development is supposed to work. So, currently, I have seen several extreme claims of Justine that turned out to be true (cosmopolitan libc, ape, llamafile all work as advertised), so I have a higher regard for Justine than the average developer. You've claimed that Justine makes unwarranted claims, but the evidence you've shared doesn't support that accusation, so I have a lower regard for your claims than the average HN user.
  - 4bpp 3y ago
    The very opening line says > I'm glad you're happy with the fact that LLaMA 30B (a 20gb file) can be evaluated with only 4gb of memory usage! The line you quoted occurs in a context where it is also implied that the low memory usage is a fact, and there might only be a bug insofar as that the model is being evaluated incorrectly. This is what is entailed by the assertion that it "is" sparse: that is, a big fraction of the parameters are not actually required to perform inference on the model.
    - wpietri 3y ago
      I think you are making a lot of soup from very little meat. I read those links the same way mtlynch read them. I think you're looking for a perfection of phrasing that is much more suited to peer-reviewed academic papers than random tweets and GitHub comments taken from the middle of exploring something. Seeing your initial comment and knowing little about the situation, I was entirely prepared to share your skepticism. But at this point I'm much more skeptical of you.
- cryptonector 3y ago
  Where's the 30B-in-6GB claim? ^FGB in your GH link finds [0] which is neither by jart nor by ggerganov but by another user who promptly gets told to look at [1] where Justine denies that claim. [0] https://github.com/antimatter15/alpaca.cpp/issues/182 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35400066
  - 4bpp 3y ago
    These all postdate the discussions that I linked (from March 31st). By April 1st JT themselves seems to have stopped making/boosting the claim about low memory usage.
    - cryptonector 3y ago
      I used your link.

4bpp 3y ago

Plenty of claims about it, e.g. here as a "fact": https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/discussions/638#discussioncomment-5492916 https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/discussions/638#discu.... I don't think occasional expressions of lingering doubt (still couched among positive language like calling it a "miracle") can offset all the self-promotion that clearly seeks to maximise visibility of the implausible claim, even as it is attributed to others, as for example in https://twitter.com/JustineTunney/status/1641881145104297985?lang=en https://twitter.com/JustineTunney/status/1641881145104297985... . A cereal manufacturer would probably be held responsible for package text like "Fruity Loops cured my cancer! - John, 52, Kalamazoo" too.

mtlynch 3y ago
I don't read that as a claim of fact at all. From the link you shared: >Now, since my change is so new, it's possible my theory is wrong and this is just a bug. I don't actually understand the inner workings of LLaMA 30B well enough to know why it's sparse. I haven't followed her work closely, but based on the links you shared, she sounds like she's doing the opposite of self-promotion and making outrageous claims. She's sharing the fact that she's observed an improvement while also disclosing her doubts that it could be experimental error. That's how open-source development is supposed to work. So, currently, I have seen several extreme claims of Justine that turned out to be true (cosmopolitan libc, ape, llamafile all work as advertised), so I have a higher regard for Justine than the average developer. You've claimed that Justine makes unwarranted claims, but the evidence you've shared doesn't support that accusation, so I have a lower regard for your claims than the average HN user.
- 4bpp 3y ago
  The very opening line says > I'm glad you're happy with the fact that LLaMA 30B (a 20gb file) can be evaluated with only 4gb of memory usage! The line you quoted occurs in a context where it is also implied that the low memory usage is a fact, and there might only be a bug insofar as that the model is being evaluated incorrectly. This is what is entailed by the assertion that it "is" sparse: that is, a big fraction of the parameters are not actually required to perform inference on the model.
  - wpietri 3y ago
    I think you are making a lot of soup from very little meat. I read those links the same way mtlynch read them. I think you're looking for a perfection of phrasing that is much more suited to peer-reviewed academic papers than random tweets and GitHub comments taken from the middle of exploring something. Seeing your initial comment and knowing little about the situation, I was entirely prepared to share your skepticism. But at this point I'm much more skeptical of you.
cryptonector 3y ago
Where's the 30B-in-6GB claim? ^FGB in your GH link finds [0] which is neither by jart nor by ggerganov but by another user who promptly gets told to look at [1] where Justine denies that claim. [0] https://github.com/antimatter15/alpaca.cpp/issues/182 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35400066
- 4bpp 3y ago
  These all postdate the discussions that I linked (from March 31st). By April 1st JT themselves seems to have stopped making/boosting the claim about low memory usage.
  - cryptonector 3y ago
    I used your link.