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Per Wikipedia Eugene Debs was convicted of federal charges for defying a court injunction against the strike and served six months in prison. The world we live

Per Wikipedia Eugene Debs was convicted of federal charges for defying a court injunction against the strike and served six months in prison. The world we live in means that someone is going to draw an equivalence from similar words for political gain. For e.g. prison is prison doesn't matter if it's for defying anti strike injunction or financial fraud. Likewise anti-war is anti-war be it a WW2 or Vietnam.

resource_waste 3y ago
>Likewise anti-war is anti-war be it a WW2 or Vietnam. Defensive and Just wars are not exactly the same as carving out political spheres of influence.
- blinkingled 3y ago
  That's exactly the point - it is being used by a post below as such.
somenameforme 3y ago
Bear in mind that you might see such parallels as unthinkable in the same way that someone of the time might have simply seen Debs as a 'anti-government insurrectionist who would later turn to outright sedition.' Debs led strikes that turned into violent riots that resulted in dozens of people being killed and millions of dollars in damage, only finally being shut down by the Army. [1] And he was indeed also arrested for sedition after speaking out loudly against US participation in WW1, which at the time was being framed as the most noble of all wars imaginable - it was literally called "The War to End All Wars." Propaganda, like always. A quote from Stalin was that, "I know that after my death a pile of rubbish will be heaped on my grave, but the winds of history will sooner or later sweep it away without mercy." And I think that's probably true of many people. How we see things in one era often looks very different in the future -- you're left with just the big picture, less muddied by the liminalities and biases of the day. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Strike
- lukan 3y ago
  "A quote from Stalin was that, "I know that after my death a pile of rubbish will be heaped on my grave, but the winds of history will sooner or later sweep it away without mercy." And I think that's probably true of many people. How we see things in one era often looks very different in the future" If anything, Stalin has an even worse reputation today as in the years after his death. And I actually hope this won't change, as it would mean viewing mass murder and totalitarism in a good light again.
  - sudosysgen 3y ago
    Public opinion of Stalin actually improved and are overall positive in many ex-communist states, and outside of the Western world opinion on Stalin is not terribly bad, or even positive, again depending on the country.
    - lukan 3y ago
      The only country I know, where Stalin is openly admired by a significant proportion of the population, is russia. "overall positive in many ex-communist states" So examples please?
- kerkeslager 3y ago
  Sure, propaganda has led people to believe all sorts of things, but importantly there were real events that really happened independent of people's opinions of them. I think we have a fundamental responsibility to fight against propaganda and fight for truth. Drawing a parallel between Donald Trump and Eugene Debs running for president from prison is an absurd comparison. Sure, it's true that Trump may end up running for president from prison just as Eugene Debs did, but that's possibly the only similarity between these two figures. Making this comparison, as if Donald Trump is some sort of fighter for workers, sounds awfully politically motivated.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - 3y ago
AlbertCory 3y ago
> anti-war is anti-war be it a WW2 or Vietnam I think you mean WW1. Debs went to prison for protesting that. Protests against wars have been handled very differently, depending on the war and who was in power.

resource_waste 3y ago

>Likewise anti-war is anti-war be it a WW2 or Vietnam. Defensive and Just wars are not exactly the same as carving out political spheres of influence.

blinkingled 3y ago
That's exactly the point - it is being used by a post below as such.

somenameforme 3y ago

Bear in mind that you might see such parallels as unthinkable in the same way that someone of the time might have simply seen Debs as a 'anti-government insurrectionist who would later turn to outright sedition.' Debs led strikes that turned into violent riots that resulted in dozens of people being killed and millions of dollars in damage, only finally being shut down by the Army. [1] And he was indeed also arrested for sedition after speaking out loudly against US participation in WW1, which at the time was being framed as the most noble of all wars imaginable - it was literally called "The War to End All Wars." Propaganda, like always. A quote from Stalin was that, "I know that after my death a pile of rubbish will be heaped on my grave, but the winds of history will sooner or later sweep it away without mercy." And I think that's probably true of many people. How we see things in one era often looks very different in the future -- you're left with just the big picture, less muddied by the liminalities and biases of the day. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Strike

lukan 3y ago
"A quote from Stalin was that, "I know that after my death a pile of rubbish will be heaped on my grave, but the winds of history will sooner or later sweep it away without mercy." And I think that's probably true of many people. How we see things in one era often looks very different in the future" If anything, Stalin has an even worse reputation today as in the years after his death. And I actually hope this won't change, as it would mean viewing mass murder and totalitarism in a good light again.
- sudosysgen 3y ago
  Public opinion of Stalin actually improved and are overall positive in many ex-communist states, and outside of the Western world opinion on Stalin is not terribly bad, or even positive, again depending on the country.
  - lukan 3y ago
    The only country I know, where Stalin is openly admired by a significant proportion of the population, is russia. "overall positive in many ex-communist states" So examples please?
kerkeslager 3y ago
Sure, propaganda has led people to believe all sorts of things, but importantly there were real events that really happened independent of people's opinions of them. I think we have a fundamental responsibility to fight against propaganda and fight for truth. Drawing a parallel between Donald Trump and Eugene Debs running for president from prison is an absurd comparison. Sure, it's true that Trump may end up running for president from prison just as Eugene Debs did, but that's possibly the only similarity between these two figures. Making this comparison, as if Donald Trump is some sort of fighter for workers, sounds awfully politically motivated.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- 3y ago

AlbertCory 3y ago

> anti-war is anti-war be it a WW2 or Vietnam I think you mean WW1. Debs went to prison for protesting that. Protests against wars have been handled very differently, depending on the war and who was in power.