7 ms·

What are the lessons from COVID?

SandalsAndSocks 3y ago
I think COVID (and the 2020 events, especially in the USA - I was living in Minneapolis at that time, so I might be biased) increased mental health awareness. For everyone, but especially for "essential workers". Supply chain improvements have been made to increase diversification and resilience. There was a lot of individualism to cast a shadow, but also cooperation and solidarity was shining on a small scale (hobbyist 3d-printing and donating shields and face mask relief thingies), but also globally. Without getting into the healthcare and technology advancements we accomplished as a species.
- hinkley 3y ago
  I guarantee you stock prices will go up in ten years when new CEOs dismantle all that redundancy in order to improve profit margins for two quarters.
huytersd 3y ago
The best things that came from COVID is increased WFH and mRNA vaccines.
stuff4ben 3y ago
For me, it's being prepared essentially. Having a supply of masks, toilet paper, meds, emergency supplies, etc.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 3y ago
I came out of it fine. I wish some other people had learned: - That a respiratory disease can spread quickly before you show symptoms, and kill millions - That even though the government is wrong a lot, sometimes they're right about important things - That you don't get to defect from polite society one day and then whine about being an outcast the next. Of course I'm mad at people who refused to take any precautions at all. They made things worse.
- lurking15 3y ago
  [flagged]
- themaninthedark 3y ago
  Here are my takeaways: - The government will lie to you because it is not prepared. - They will then spin on a dime with no consequences and all those who were towing the line will switch with them. - Those who follow the government's direction will ostracize people in both cases and doesn't matter because they are "right".
  - hinkley 3y ago
    Chaos helps no one. It’s why even the democratic world has martial law. We may be wrong together but at least we are together. Having people running in three directions at once will get everyone killed in wartime or disaster. Once the avalanche starts it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
    - themaninthedark 3y ago
      I strongly disagree; People have agency, rocks and geological forces do not. >We may be wrong together but at least we are together. Is a great way to get everyone killed. We, in the west love to tout how our diversity and free thinking makes us better than those who do not have those values. What I saw were a bunch of countries that wished they could rule the populace in the same manner as China and Saudi Arabia. If we can not uphold our values when we face difficulties, then they are not values. You speak of martial law and preventing chaos. Envision the outcry and response if Trump had enacted such a policy in early February when members of the Democratic Party were encouraging people to gather in crowds to show support for Chinese New Year?
  - numpad0 3y ago
    I'm not so sure. To me it seems people just could not stand masks to the point it actually created ongoing planetary scale mental health crisis. :shrug:.
  - 3y ago
renewiltord 3y ago
Funny. What appear to be the "lessons of COVID" appear to be a reinforcement of people's own beliefs. One could just as well "learn from COVID" that: The government is correct when they request large-scale public health interventions and you should go along with it when it makes large scale interventions since some of these require coordination on an urgent time-scale. and just as well that Paternalism does not work. Providing diktats from the throne result in some quarter of the population revolting against the idea, causing coordination failure. Whether one chooses the former or the latter seem entirely dependent on one's preconceived beliefs.
- TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
  And also on whether or not one is aware of the number of deaths avoided by government action, and the documented existence of disinformation networks which were - and still are - promoting extremes of polarised social division and self-harm.
  - mistermann 3y ago
    It is perhaps worth noting: - it is not possible to be aware of aware of the number of deaths avoided by government action, because counter-factual reality is not accessible; humans typically substitute a simulation in response, but often do not know that has occurred - there is no requirement for documentation ("documented existence of disinformation networks") to be accurate - in some cases, and for various reasons (choice of inadequate variable types in one's analysis/cognition, ie: "existence", cultural norms), it is not possible for documentation to be accurate and comprehensive, and this is one of those times - in some cases it is not possible to apply this sort of level of rigor, this seems to almost always be one of those times (all people on all sides are engaged in deceit, intentionally or not), at least so far in humanity's evolution - In most serious organizations, an event of this scale would prompt a post incident analysis, there seems to be little sign that anyone considers this event serious enough to justify such an analysis (COVID seems to have triggered one of the many paradoxes in the system in that it is super serious, but also not, simultaneously) - this list is far from exhaustive - humans will have very interesting (and typically predictable) reactions to the contents of this list, or others like it (the system is susceptible to a list based attack?)
eej71 3y ago
I agree with what I think is the implied premise of your question - which - I'd make explicit as - its not clear we can agree what the lessons even were? For example, was it good that we closed parks? Remember when sand was poured into skateparks? Or the parks in NYC were padlocked? Was it good that we closed schools for so long? Remember the amount of shaming that happened when some people went to the beaches? Remember when the grocery stores had arrows about which way the direction of the aisle went? Remember how long we handed out bacteria wipes as though it was spread through dirty surfaces? I'm not sure us peons in society are the only ones who need to learn lessons here.
wpietri 3y ago
If you look at the flu seasons, I think one of the lessons is that relatively modest behavioral and infrastructural changes could radically reduce harm from respiration-transmitted diseases. However I think it's a lesson that went mostly unlearned. The future I was expecting was a strong increase in ventilation, widespread adoption of CO2 measurements in public spaces (in the same way we measure temperature and humidity now), and experiments with things like UV to reduce disease particle viability. Along with behavioral changes, like staying home when sick, some continued use of masking, and use of mRNA techniques so people get something like quarterly vaccines that cover all the diseases we're trying to keep in check. What I instead got was an anti-science politicization of reasonable public health measures that 20 years ago would have been inconceivable. And then a giant collective shrug where we see plenty of ongoing death and a continuing rise of long Covid such that we have millions partly or wholly disabled. Including with brain fog, a symptom that I, as a programmer, would fine particularly devastating.
- hinkley 3y ago
  Two of my local haunts have UV lights and a number of places have much better ventilation now. It’s not every place but it’s some. The other thing we should bring back are brass and silver handles. Both of which can kill surface germs almost instantly. It has to be unlaquered though and you’ll find a lot of brass coated in plastic to keep it from corroding.
nilamo 3y ago
That most of my neighbors are assholes. Before, I merely assumed.

I think COVID (and the 2020 events, especially in the USA - I was living in Minneapolis at that time, so I might be biased) increased mental health awareness. For everyone, but especially for "essential workers". Supply chain improvements have been made to increase diversification and resilience. There was a lot of individualism to cast a shadow, but also cooperation and solidarity was shining on a small scale (hobbyist 3d-printing and donating shields and face mask relief thingies), but also globally. Without getting into the healthcare and technology advancements we accomplished as a species.

hinkley 3y ago
I guarantee you stock prices will go up in ten years when new CEOs dismantle all that redundancy in order to improve profit margins for two quarters.

huytersd 3y ago

The best things that came from COVID is increased WFH and mRNA vaccines.

stuff4ben 3y ago

For me, it's being prepared essentially. Having a supply of masks, toilet paper, meds, emergency supplies, etc.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 3y ago

I came out of it fine. I wish some other people had learned: - That a respiratory disease can spread quickly before you show symptoms, and kill millions - That even though the government is wrong a lot, sometimes they're right about important things - That you don't get to defect from polite society one day and then whine about being an outcast the next. Of course I'm mad at people who refused to take any precautions at all. They made things worse.

lurking15 3y ago
[flagged]
themaninthedark 3y ago
Here are my takeaways: - The government will lie to you because it is not prepared. - They will then spin on a dime with no consequences and all those who were towing the line will switch with them. - Those who follow the government's direction will ostracize people in both cases and doesn't matter because they are "right".
- hinkley 3y ago
  Chaos helps no one. It’s why even the democratic world has martial law. We may be wrong together but at least we are together. Having people running in three directions at once will get everyone killed in wartime or disaster. Once the avalanche starts it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
  - themaninthedark 3y ago
    I strongly disagree; People have agency, rocks and geological forces do not. >We may be wrong together but at least we are together. Is a great way to get everyone killed. We, in the west love to tout how our diversity and free thinking makes us better than those who do not have those values. What I saw were a bunch of countries that wished they could rule the populace in the same manner as China and Saudi Arabia. If we can not uphold our values when we face difficulties, then they are not values. You speak of martial law and preventing chaos. Envision the outcry and response if Trump had enacted such a policy in early February when members of the Democratic Party were encouraging people to gather in crowds to show support for Chinese New Year?
- numpad0 3y ago
  I'm not so sure. To me it seems people just could not stand masks to the point it actually created ongoing planetary scale mental health crisis. :shrug:.
- 3y ago

renewiltord 3y ago

Funny. What appear to be the "lessons of COVID" appear to be a reinforcement of people's own beliefs. One could just as well "learn from COVID" that: The government is correct when they request large-scale public health interventions and you should go along with it when it makes large scale interventions since some of these require coordination on an urgent time-scale. and just as well that Paternalism does not work. Providing diktats from the throne result in some quarter of the population revolting against the idea, causing coordination failure. Whether one chooses the former or the latter seem entirely dependent on one's preconceived beliefs.

TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
And also on whether or not one is aware of the number of deaths avoided by government action, and the documented existence of disinformation networks which were - and still are - promoting extremes of polarised social division and self-harm.
- mistermann 3y ago
  It is perhaps worth noting: - it is not possible to be aware of aware of the number of deaths avoided by government action, because counter-factual reality is not accessible; humans typically substitute a simulation in response, but often do not know that has occurred - there is no requirement for documentation ("documented existence of disinformation networks") to be accurate - in some cases, and for various reasons (choice of inadequate variable types in one's analysis/cognition, ie: "existence", cultural norms), it is not possible for documentation to be accurate and comprehensive, and this is one of those times - in some cases it is not possible to apply this sort of level of rigor, this seems to almost always be one of those times (all people on all sides are engaged in deceit, intentionally or not), at least so far in humanity's evolution - In most serious organizations, an event of this scale would prompt a post incident analysis, there seems to be little sign that anyone considers this event serious enough to justify such an analysis (COVID seems to have triggered one of the many paradoxes in the system in that it is super serious, but also not, simultaneously) - this list is far from exhaustive - humans will have very interesting (and typically predictable) reactions to the contents of this list, or others like it (the system is susceptible to a list based attack?)

eej71 3y ago

I agree with what I think is the implied premise of your question - which - I'd make explicit as - its not clear we can agree what the lessons even were? For example, was it good that we closed parks? Remember when sand was poured into skateparks? Or the parks in NYC were padlocked? Was it good that we closed schools for so long? Remember the amount of shaming that happened when some people went to the beaches? Remember when the grocery stores had arrows about which way the direction of the aisle went? Remember how long we handed out bacteria wipes as though it was spread through dirty surfaces? I'm not sure us peons in society are the only ones who need to learn lessons here.

wpietri 3y ago

If you look at the flu seasons, I think one of the lessons is that relatively modest behavioral and infrastructural changes could radically reduce harm from respiration-transmitted diseases. However I think it's a lesson that went mostly unlearned. The future I was expecting was a strong increase in ventilation, widespread adoption of CO2 measurements in public spaces (in the same way we measure temperature and humidity now), and experiments with things like UV to reduce disease particle viability. Along with behavioral changes, like staying home when sick, some continued use of masking, and use of mRNA techniques so people get something like quarterly vaccines that cover all the diseases we're trying to keep in check. What I instead got was an anti-science politicization of reasonable public health measures that 20 years ago would have been inconceivable. And then a giant collective shrug where we see plenty of ongoing death and a continuing rise of long Covid such that we have millions partly or wholly disabled. Including with brain fog, a symptom that I, as a programmer, would fine particularly devastating.

hinkley 3y ago
Two of my local haunts have UV lights and a number of places have much better ventilation now. It’s not every place but it’s some. The other thing we should bring back are brass and silver handles. Both of which can kill surface germs almost instantly. It has to be unlaquered though and you’ll find a lot of brass coated in plastic to keep it from corroding.

nilamo 3y ago

That most of my neighbors are assholes. Before, I merely assumed.