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> "It takes about three generations for people to forget. Those that experience the disaster themselves pass it to their children and their grandchildren, but t

> "It takes about three generations for people to forget. Those that experience the disaster themselves pass it to their children and their grandchildren, but then the memory fades," Some similarities to lessons from the 1918 flu epidemic that we relearned in 2020. We should build some "COVID stones" so we don't forget.

jstanley 3y ago
What are the lessons from COVID?
- SandalsAndSocks 3y ago
  I think COVID (and the 2020 events, especially in the USA - I was living in Minneapolis at that time, so I might be biased) increased mental health awareness. For everyone, but especially for "essential workers". Supply chain improvements have been made to increase diversification and resilience. There was a lot of individualism to cast a shadow, but also cooperation and solidarity was shining on a small scale (hobbyist 3d-printing and donating shields and face mask relief thingies), but also globally. Without getting into the healthcare and technology advancements we accomplished as a species.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    I guarantee you stock prices will go up in ten years when new CEOs dismantle all that redundancy in order to improve profit margins for two quarters.
- huytersd 3y ago
  The best things that came from COVID is increased WFH and mRNA vaccines.
- stuff4ben 3y ago
  For me, it's being prepared essentially. Having a supply of masks, toilet paper, meds, emergency supplies, etc.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 3y ago
  I came out of it fine. I wish some other people had learned: - That a respiratory disease can spread quickly before you show symptoms, and kill millions - That even though the government is wrong a lot, sometimes they're right about important things - That you don't get to defect from polite society one day and then whine about being an outcast the next. Of course I'm mad at people who refused to take any precautions at all. They made things worse.
  - lurking15 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - themaninthedark 3y ago
    Here are my takeaways: - The government will lie to you because it is not prepared. - They will then spin on a dime with no consequences and all those who were towing the line will switch with them. - Those who follow the government's direction will ostracize people in both cases and doesn't matter because they are "right".
    - hinkley 3y ago
      Chaos helps no one. It’s why even the democratic world has martial law. We may be wrong together but at least we are together. Having people running in three directions at once will get everyone killed in wartime or disaster. Once the avalanche starts it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
      - themaninthedark 3y ago
        I strongly disagree; People have agency, rocks and geological forces do not. >We may be wrong together but at least we are together. Is a great way to get everyone killed. We, in the west love to tout how our diversity and free thinking makes us better than those who do not have those values. What I saw were a bunch of countries that wished they could rule the populace in the same manner as China and Saudi Arabia. If we can not uphold our values when we face difficulties, then they are not values. You speak of martial law and preventing chaos. Envision the outcry and response if Trump had enacted such a policy in early February when members of the Democratic Party were encouraging people to gather in crowds to show support for Chinese New Year?
- renewiltord 3y ago
  Funny. What appear to be the "lessons of COVID" appear to be a reinforcement of people's own beliefs. One could just as well "learn from COVID" that: The government is correct when they request large-scale public health interventions and you should go along with it when it makes large scale interventions since some of these require coordination on an urgent time-scale. and just as well that Paternalism does not work. Providing diktats from the throne result in some quarter of the population revolting against the idea, causing coordination failure. Whether one chooses the former or the latter seem entirely dependent on one's preconceived beliefs.
  - TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
    And also on whether or not one is aware of the number of deaths avoided by government action, and the documented existence of disinformation networks which were - and still are - promoting extremes of polarised social division and self-harm.
    - mistermann 3y ago
      It is perhaps worth noting: - it is not possible to be aware of aware of the number of deaths avoided by government action, because counter-factual reality is not accessible; humans typically substitute a simulation in response, but often do not know that has occurred - there is no requirement for documentation ("documented existence of disinformation networks") to be accurate - in some cases, and for various reasons (choice of inadequate variable types in one's analysis/cognition, ie: "existence", cultural norms), it is not possible for documentation to be accurate and comprehensive, and this is one of those times - in some cases it is not possible to apply this sort of level of rigor, this seems to almost always be one of those times (all people on all sides are engaged in deceit, intentionally or not), at least so far in humanity's evolution - In most serious organizations, an event of this scale would prompt a post incident analysis, there seems to be little sign that anyone considers this event serious enough to justify such an analysis (COVID seems to have triggered one of the many paradoxes in the system in that it is super serious, but also not, simultaneously) - this list is far from exhaustive - humans will have very interesting (and typically predictable) reactions to the contents of this list, or others like it (the system is susceptible to a list based attack?)
- eej71 3y ago
  I agree with what I think is the implied premise of your question - which - I'd make explicit as - its not clear we can agree what the lessons even were? For example, was it good that we closed parks? Remember when sand was poured into skateparks? Or the parks in NYC were padlocked? Was it good that we closed schools for so long? Remember the amount of shaming that happened when some people went to the beaches? Remember when the grocery stores had arrows about which way the direction of the aisle went? Remember how long we handed out bacteria wipes as though it was spread through dirty surfaces? I'm not sure us peons in society are the only ones who need to learn lessons here.
- wpietri 3y ago
  If you look at the flu seasons, I think one of the lessons is that relatively modest behavioral and infrastructural changes could radically reduce harm from respiration-transmitted diseases. However I think it's a lesson that went mostly unlearned. The future I was expecting was a strong increase in ventilation, widespread adoption of CO2 measurements in public spaces (in the same way we measure temperature and humidity now), and experiments with things like UV to reduce disease particle viability. Along with behavioral changes, like staying home when sick, some continued use of masking, and use of mRNA techniques so people get something like quarterly vaccines that cover all the diseases we're trying to keep in check. What I instead got was an anti-science politicization of reasonable public health measures that 20 years ago would have been inconceivable. And then a giant collective shrug where we see plenty of ongoing death and a continuing rise of long Covid such that we have millions partly or wholly disabled. Including with brain fog, a symptom that I, as a programmer, would fine particularly devastating.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    Two of my local haunts have UV lights and a number of places have much better ventilation now. It’s not every place but it’s some. The other thing we should bring back are brass and silver handles. Both of which can kill surface germs almost instantly. It has to be unlaquered though and you’ll find a lot of brass coated in plastic to keep it from corroding.
- nilamo 3y ago
  That most of my neighbors are assholes. Before, I merely assumed.
musha68k 3y ago
Time to do everything to keep the memories and learnings of WWII alive. 79 years ~ 2.6 generations
- mantas 3y ago
  Looking at drama around Ukraine war, it’s already lost.
  - ekanes 3y ago
    I see the opposite. A nation state aggressively attempted to take over another, and the world reacted swiftly and largely in unison. The lesson seems learned, at least for now. If the lesson had been lost, everyone would have done nothing.
    - jewayne 3y ago
      Except half of Americans are rooting for Putin.
      - Nevermark 3y ago
        > Except half of Americans are rooting for Putin. Both "half" and "rooting" are exaggerations. No need for that. But yes, a depressing number of one party's politicians are willing to use Ukraine foreign policy as a domestic division issue.
        jstanley 3y ago
        Doesn't it take 2 sides to make something a division issue?
        jewayne 3y ago
        Your mom milks babies for their blood. Now, don't go and make this a division issue by disagreeing with me.
DudeOpotomus 3y ago
The Fourth Turning and his newer one, The Fourth Turning is Here by Neil Howe goes into this phenomenon and how it shapes society and humanity. It's roughly 80 years in length and covers 4 generations of archetypes. Every society, every culture, everywhere for as long as we know...
1letterunixname 3y ago
1918 not-Spanish "Spanish" A/H1N1 flu pandemic. Pandemic commandments: 0. Thou shalln't eat wild animals. 1. Thou shalln't mix wild animals and animal agriculture. 2. Better yet, thou shalln't eat any animals to prevent this entire risk category.
cameldrv 3y ago
I think cycles of forgetting run faster these days. A whole bunch of cows in Texas have H5N1 flu now, and they're not stopping them from selling the cows, so they're now infecting herds in other states. Just yesterday a dairy worker in Texas came down with H5N1.

jstanley 3y ago

What are the lessons from COVID?

SandalsAndSocks 3y ago
I think COVID (and the 2020 events, especially in the USA - I was living in Minneapolis at that time, so I might be biased) increased mental health awareness. For everyone, but especially for "essential workers". Supply chain improvements have been made to increase diversification and resilience. There was a lot of individualism to cast a shadow, but also cooperation and solidarity was shining on a small scale (hobbyist 3d-printing and donating shields and face mask relief thingies), but also globally. Without getting into the healthcare and technology advancements we accomplished as a species.
- hinkley 3y ago
  I guarantee you stock prices will go up in ten years when new CEOs dismantle all that redundancy in order to improve profit margins for two quarters.
huytersd 3y ago
The best things that came from COVID is increased WFH and mRNA vaccines.
stuff4ben 3y ago
For me, it's being prepared essentially. Having a supply of masks, toilet paper, meds, emergency supplies, etc.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 3y ago
I came out of it fine. I wish some other people had learned: - That a respiratory disease can spread quickly before you show symptoms, and kill millions - That even though the government is wrong a lot, sometimes they're right about important things - That you don't get to defect from polite society one day and then whine about being an outcast the next. Of course I'm mad at people who refused to take any precautions at all. They made things worse.
- lurking15 3y ago
  [flagged]
- themaninthedark 3y ago
  Here are my takeaways: - The government will lie to you because it is not prepared. - They will then spin on a dime with no consequences and all those who were towing the line will switch with them. - Those who follow the government's direction will ostracize people in both cases and doesn't matter because they are "right".
  - hinkley 3y ago
    Chaos helps no one. It’s why even the democratic world has martial law. We may be wrong together but at least we are together. Having people running in three directions at once will get everyone killed in wartime or disaster. Once the avalanche starts it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
    - themaninthedark 3y ago
      I strongly disagree; People have agency, rocks and geological forces do not. >We may be wrong together but at least we are together. Is a great way to get everyone killed. We, in the west love to tout how our diversity and free thinking makes us better than those who do not have those values. What I saw were a bunch of countries that wished they could rule the populace in the same manner as China and Saudi Arabia. If we can not uphold our values when we face difficulties, then they are not values. You speak of martial law and preventing chaos. Envision the outcry and response if Trump had enacted such a policy in early February when members of the Democratic Party were encouraging people to gather in crowds to show support for Chinese New Year?
renewiltord 3y ago
Funny. What appear to be the "lessons of COVID" appear to be a reinforcement of people's own beliefs. One could just as well "learn from COVID" that: The government is correct when they request large-scale public health interventions and you should go along with it when it makes large scale interventions since some of these require coordination on an urgent time-scale. and just as well that Paternalism does not work. Providing diktats from the throne result in some quarter of the population revolting against the idea, causing coordination failure. Whether one chooses the former or the latter seem entirely dependent on one's preconceived beliefs.
- TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
  And also on whether or not one is aware of the number of deaths avoided by government action, and the documented existence of disinformation networks which were - and still are - promoting extremes of polarised social division and self-harm.
  - mistermann 3y ago
    It is perhaps worth noting: - it is not possible to be aware of aware of the number of deaths avoided by government action, because counter-factual reality is not accessible; humans typically substitute a simulation in response, but often do not know that has occurred - there is no requirement for documentation ("documented existence of disinformation networks") to be accurate - in some cases, and for various reasons (choice of inadequate variable types in one's analysis/cognition, ie: "existence", cultural norms), it is not possible for documentation to be accurate and comprehensive, and this is one of those times - in some cases it is not possible to apply this sort of level of rigor, this seems to almost always be one of those times (all people on all sides are engaged in deceit, intentionally or not), at least so far in humanity's evolution - In most serious organizations, an event of this scale would prompt a post incident analysis, there seems to be little sign that anyone considers this event serious enough to justify such an analysis (COVID seems to have triggered one of the many paradoxes in the system in that it is super serious, but also not, simultaneously) - this list is far from exhaustive - humans will have very interesting (and typically predictable) reactions to the contents of this list, or others like it (the system is susceptible to a list based attack?)
eej71 3y ago
I agree with what I think is the implied premise of your question - which - I'd make explicit as - its not clear we can agree what the lessons even were? For example, was it good that we closed parks? Remember when sand was poured into skateparks? Or the parks in NYC were padlocked? Was it good that we closed schools for so long? Remember the amount of shaming that happened when some people went to the beaches? Remember when the grocery stores had arrows about which way the direction of the aisle went? Remember how long we handed out bacteria wipes as though it was spread through dirty surfaces? I'm not sure us peons in society are the only ones who need to learn lessons here.
wpietri 3y ago
If you look at the flu seasons, I think one of the lessons is that relatively modest behavioral and infrastructural changes could radically reduce harm from respiration-transmitted diseases. However I think it's a lesson that went mostly unlearned. The future I was expecting was a strong increase in ventilation, widespread adoption of CO2 measurements in public spaces (in the same way we measure temperature and humidity now), and experiments with things like UV to reduce disease particle viability. Along with behavioral changes, like staying home when sick, some continued use of masking, and use of mRNA techniques so people get something like quarterly vaccines that cover all the diseases we're trying to keep in check. What I instead got was an anti-science politicization of reasonable public health measures that 20 years ago would have been inconceivable. And then a giant collective shrug where we see plenty of ongoing death and a continuing rise of long Covid such that we have millions partly or wholly disabled. Including with brain fog, a symptom that I, as a programmer, would fine particularly devastating.
- hinkley 3y ago
  Two of my local haunts have UV lights and a number of places have much better ventilation now. It’s not every place but it’s some. The other thing we should bring back are brass and silver handles. Both of which can kill surface germs almost instantly. It has to be unlaquered though and you’ll find a lot of brass coated in plastic to keep it from corroding.
nilamo 3y ago
That most of my neighbors are assholes. Before, I merely assumed.

musha68k 3y ago

Time to do everything to keep the memories and learnings of WWII alive. 79 years ~ 2.6 generations

mantas 3y ago
Looking at drama around Ukraine war, it’s already lost.
- ekanes 3y ago
  I see the opposite. A nation state aggressively attempted to take over another, and the world reacted swiftly and largely in unison. The lesson seems learned, at least for now. If the lesson had been lost, everyone would have done nothing.
  - jewayne 3y ago
    Except half of Americans are rooting for Putin.
    - Nevermark 3y ago
      > Except half of Americans are rooting for Putin. Both "half" and "rooting" are exaggerations. No need for that. But yes, a depressing number of one party's politicians are willing to use Ukraine foreign policy as a domestic division issue.
      - jstanley 3y ago
        Doesn't it take 2 sides to make something a division issue?
        jewayne 3y ago
        Your mom milks babies for their blood. Now, don't go and make this a division issue by disagreeing with me.

DudeOpotomus 3y ago

The Fourth Turning and his newer one, The Fourth Turning is Here by Neil Howe goes into this phenomenon and how it shapes society and humanity. It's roughly 80 years in length and covers 4 generations of archetypes. Every society, every culture, everywhere for as long as we know...

1letterunixname 3y ago

1918 not-Spanish "Spanish" A/H1N1 flu pandemic. Pandemic commandments: 0. Thou shalln't eat wild animals. 1. Thou shalln't mix wild animals and animal agriculture. 2. Better yet, thou shalln't eat any animals to prevent this entire risk category.

cameldrv 3y ago

I think cycles of forgetting run faster these days. A whole bunch of cows in Texas have H5N1 flu now, and they're not stopping them from selling the cows, so they're now infecting herds in other states. Just yesterday a dairy worker in Texas came down with H5N1.