4 ms·

Consumption of all drugs is legal in Germany. The problem is buying/selling/production, as well as simple possession. I think this is the case in most countries

by spqrr 3y ago

Consumption of all drugs is legal in Germany. The problem is buying/selling/production, as well as simple possession. I think this is the case in most countries.

blueflow 3y ago
This tiny detail makes the difference why employer-mandated drug tests are not a thing in Germany like it is in the US.
- chimeracoder 3y ago
  > This tiny detail makes the difference why employer-mandated drug tests are not a thing in Germany like it is in the US. It doesn't explain the difference, no, since the same is true about the US. In most states, consumption of most drugs is not a crime - possession, production, distribution, sale, and trafficking are the actual crimes prosecuted.
  - basch 3y ago
    Nearly any amount of intoxication is vaguely illegal under disorderly conduct. It’s a catch all they can apply whenever. Fighting it and winning still costs time and money. So sure, the act of consuming might be legal, but having consumed isn’t.
    - gruez 3y ago
      >Nearly any amount of intoxication is vaguely illegal under disorderly conduct. Isn't that limited to public spaces? If you're getting high in private you should be fine?
      - falcor84 3y ago
        As I understand it, the issue is only about showing up to work with any level of drugs in your system, even if there aren't any actual signs of you being intoxicated.
        Wytwwww 3y ago
        But that's just a policy some companies have, it has nothing to do with legality.
    - chimeracoder 3y ago
      > Nearly any amount of intoxication is vaguely illegal under disorderly conduct. It’s a catch all they can apply whenever. Fighting it and winning still costs time and money. This is a weak argument. Almost nobody is getting prosecuted for "disorderly conduct" when under the influence of marijuana as a proxy for marijuana consumption. And even if they were, the connection between that and employer drug tests is extremely tenuous.
  - AngryData 3y ago
    Unless you drive a car or own a gun in the US, then if you do get a bad drug test result you can easily get charged with a crime. It is not likely to get drug tested in relation to having a gun, but anywhere pushing DUI enforcement is going to be drug testing significant samples of random people and charging people who may have smoked long ago and had all side effects completely subsided but still charged with a DUI offense. You can get active THC in a blood sample up to 3 days after smoking despite the effects lasting hours at best and levels not increasing or decreasing linearly with consumption. And of course metabolites for cannabis can go back up to an entire month.
    - chimeracoder 3y ago
      > Unless you drive a car or own a gun in the US, then if you do get a bad drug test result you can easily get charged with a crime. The likelihood of getting charged with a drug-related crime for testing positive for drugs on an employer-mandated drug test, which is the context being discussed, is absolutely minuscule. You may get fired, but your employer isn't going to refer you to local prosecution, and the prosecution wouldn't take it if they did.
  - The_Colonel 3y ago
    Not sure about Germany, but even possession (of small quantities) is decriminalized in many European countries.
    - chimeracoder 3y ago
      > Not sure about Germany The title of this post is " Smoking cannabis is now legal in Germany".
      - The_Colonel 3y ago
        Well, obviously. What I meant was "Not sure about how it was before today in Germany". The effects of today's changes are not yet clear.
- mdekkers 3y ago
  > This tiny detail makes the difference why employer-mandated drug tests are not a thing in Germany like it is in the US. Not really. The business of employer-mandated drug testing in the EU is generally tricky, and employees enjoy wide ranging protections. Most countries only allow drug testing where there is a certain aspect of risk, and in most of those case, only a physician can perform the test, and cannot share findings, only declare the subject as fit for duties or not. In Germany, specifically, a pre-employment test but a physician is allowed, and when employed only rarely and for very specific circumstances.
- refurb 3y ago
  > This tiny detail makes the difference why employer-mandated drug tests are not a thing in Germany like it is in the US. I assume that Germany does drug testing for safety-related roles? Crane operators, pilots, nuclear plant operators? It would be wild if they don't.
  - geraldhh 3y ago
    last nuclear plant got shutdown a few weeks ago, but, yes, drug testing is a thing (but not popular) even for some office jobs.
    - jijijijij 3y ago
      I never heard of anyone around me required to do a drug test for work. May be different for people carrying guns, like police and hunters, but that's because of gun license requirements. A drug test may be legal, or suggested, when there is reasonable suspicion someone was high during work hours. Maybe air traffic controllers and similar professions need to be evidently clean. Otherwise I don't think drug tests are legal in Germany. Even asking about consumption is illegal in most cases.
      - geraldhh 3y ago
        > Maybe air traffic controllers and similar professions need to be evidently clean. kinda obscure example. i expect most operators of heavy machinery, human transportation devices and some security professions to require some verification of abstinence. i was tested once in order to get the required permit to drive a van with elderly and disabled ppl for the red cross.
  - fwn 3y ago
    AFAIK this is allowed during the approval process for very specific roles, but not just randomly in day-to-day work after admission. And for good reason. That would be an entirely unproportional encroachment on privacy and personal rights, irrespective of whether the test turns out positive or negative.
amarant 3y ago
You're probably right that it's the case in most countries, but an interesting counterexample is Sweden, where testing positive on a drug test is a criminal offence. Police can arrest you for appearing to be under the influence of drugs, and if they find any traces in a urine test, they'll fine you for it. I hope that legalization in Germany will lead to more sane laws in Sweden, but honestly, I'm not holding my breath for it
- spqrr 3y ago
  That is insane.
  - resolutebat 3y ago
    Sweden is (in)famous in Europe for taking probably the continent's hardest line on drugs. Cannabis is in the same category as heroin and treated accordingly, there's no tolerance for medical use etc.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- computerfriend 3y ago
  I saw a man get hassled by Swedish police on a train just after crossing the Øresund Bridge. "The dog is very interested in your bag", they said. The man admitted that maybe he had smoked marijuana in Copenhagen and they left him alone. I'm sure selective enforcement is at play, but at least in my experience they didn't care.
  - oneeyedpigeon 3y ago
    Is there any jurisdiction where selective enforcement is not how drug laws are enforced? I'm guessing maybe somewhere like Japan, but I'm sure the vast majority of states do not enforce drug laws very consistently.
  - u320 3y ago
    That is not the norm. You won't get charged for smoking in Copenhagen, but it will put you in a high risk category for smuggling so their typical response here is to search you. They were probably under a high workload and had to prioritize heavily.
Longhanks 3y ago
However, bear in mind that consumption is grounds for investigation because of the high probability of illegal acquisition or production.
stavros 3y ago
What did they legalize now, then?
- fleischhauf 3y ago
  buying, selling, production and possession (there are still regulations, but these things are now legal in some form)
- arcticbull 3y ago
  > Over-18s can now to carry up to 25 grams of dried cannabis and cultivate up to three marijuana plants at home
- 7bit 3y ago
  > As of 1 April, adults in Germany are allowed to carry up to 25g of dried cannabis on them and cultivate up to three marijuana plants at home.
  - stavros 3y ago
    Oh, it was allowed to consume it, but not carry it? That's a bit odd.
    - ce4 3y ago
      Isnt it reasonable to penalize drug trafficking over consumption, which just targets end users
      - stavros 3y ago
        It is, it's just a bit odd that I can be prosecuted while smoking a blunt, not because I'm smoking it but because I have it.
    - omnibrain 3y ago
      No, it makes sense with the philosophy of german law. It's not illegal to harm yourself. It is not illegal to flee from the police or from prison. But of course there are various crimes surrounding the allowed behaviour.
antfarm 3y ago
Possession of certain substances sure isn’t legal in Germany.

by spqrr 3y ago

Consumption of all drugs is legal in Germany. The problem is buying/selling/production, as well as simple possession. I think this is the case in most countries.

blueflow 3y ago

This tiny detail makes the difference why employer-mandated drug tests are not a thing in Germany like it is in the US.

chimeracoder 3y ago
> This tiny detail makes the difference why employer-mandated drug tests are not a thing in Germany like it is in the US. It doesn't explain the difference, no, since the same is true about the US. In most states, consumption of most drugs is not a crime - possession, production, distribution, sale, and trafficking are the actual crimes prosecuted.
- basch 3y ago
  Nearly any amount of intoxication is vaguely illegal under disorderly conduct. It’s a catch all they can apply whenever. Fighting it and winning still costs time and money. So sure, the act of consuming might be legal, but having consumed isn’t.
  - gruez 3y ago
    >Nearly any amount of intoxication is vaguely illegal under disorderly conduct. Isn't that limited to public spaces? If you're getting high in private you should be fine?
    - falcor84 3y ago
      As I understand it, the issue is only about showing up to work with any level of drugs in your system, even if there aren't any actual signs of you being intoxicated.
      - Wytwwww 3y ago
        But that's just a policy some companies have, it has nothing to do with legality.
  - chimeracoder 3y ago
    > Nearly any amount of intoxication is vaguely illegal under disorderly conduct. It’s a catch all they can apply whenever. Fighting it and winning still costs time and money. This is a weak argument. Almost nobody is getting prosecuted for "disorderly conduct" when under the influence of marijuana as a proxy for marijuana consumption. And even if they were, the connection between that and employer drug tests is extremely tenuous.
- AngryData 3y ago
  Unless you drive a car or own a gun in the US, then if you do get a bad drug test result you can easily get charged with a crime. It is not likely to get drug tested in relation to having a gun, but anywhere pushing DUI enforcement is going to be drug testing significant samples of random people and charging people who may have smoked long ago and had all side effects completely subsided but still charged with a DUI offense. You can get active THC in a blood sample up to 3 days after smoking despite the effects lasting hours at best and levels not increasing or decreasing linearly with consumption. And of course metabolites for cannabis can go back up to an entire month.
  - chimeracoder 3y ago
    > Unless you drive a car or own a gun in the US, then if you do get a bad drug test result you can easily get charged with a crime. The likelihood of getting charged with a drug-related crime for testing positive for drugs on an employer-mandated drug test, which is the context being discussed, is absolutely minuscule. You may get fired, but your employer isn't going to refer you to local prosecution, and the prosecution wouldn't take it if they did.
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  Not sure about Germany, but even possession (of small quantities) is decriminalized in many European countries.
  - chimeracoder 3y ago
    > Not sure about Germany The title of this post is " Smoking cannabis is now legal in Germany".
    - The_Colonel 3y ago
      Well, obviously. What I meant was "Not sure about how it was before today in Germany". The effects of today's changes are not yet clear.
mdekkers 3y ago
> This tiny detail makes the difference why employer-mandated drug tests are not a thing in Germany like it is in the US. Not really. The business of employer-mandated drug testing in the EU is generally tricky, and employees enjoy wide ranging protections. Most countries only allow drug testing where there is a certain aspect of risk, and in most of those case, only a physician can perform the test, and cannot share findings, only declare the subject as fit for duties or not. In Germany, specifically, a pre-employment test but a physician is allowed, and when employed only rarely and for very specific circumstances.
refurb 3y ago
> This tiny detail makes the difference why employer-mandated drug tests are not a thing in Germany like it is in the US. I assume that Germany does drug testing for safety-related roles? Crane operators, pilots, nuclear plant operators? It would be wild if they don't.
- geraldhh 3y ago
  last nuclear plant got shutdown a few weeks ago, but, yes, drug testing is a thing (but not popular) even for some office jobs.
  - jijijijij 3y ago
    I never heard of anyone around me required to do a drug test for work. May be different for people carrying guns, like police and hunters, but that's because of gun license requirements. A drug test may be legal, or suggested, when there is reasonable suspicion someone was high during work hours. Maybe air traffic controllers and similar professions need to be evidently clean. Otherwise I don't think drug tests are legal in Germany. Even asking about consumption is illegal in most cases.
    - geraldhh 3y ago
      > Maybe air traffic controllers and similar professions need to be evidently clean. kinda obscure example. i expect most operators of heavy machinery, human transportation devices and some security professions to require some verification of abstinence. i was tested once in order to get the required permit to drive a van with elderly and disabled ppl for the red cross.
- fwn 3y ago
  AFAIK this is allowed during the approval process for very specific roles, but not just randomly in day-to-day work after admission. And for good reason. That would be an entirely unproportional encroachment on privacy and personal rights, irrespective of whether the test turns out positive or negative.

amarant 3y ago

You're probably right that it's the case in most countries, but an interesting counterexample is Sweden, where testing positive on a drug test is a criminal offence. Police can arrest you for appearing to be under the influence of drugs, and if they find any traces in a urine test, they'll fine you for it. I hope that legalization in Germany will lead to more sane laws in Sweden, but honestly, I'm not holding my breath for it

spqrr 3y ago
That is insane.
- resolutebat 3y ago
  Sweden is (in)famous in Europe for taking probably the continent's hardest line on drugs. Cannabis is in the same category as heroin and treated accordingly, there's no tolerance for medical use etc.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
computerfriend 3y ago
I saw a man get hassled by Swedish police on a train just after crossing the Øresund Bridge. "The dog is very interested in your bag", they said. The man admitted that maybe he had smoked marijuana in Copenhagen and they left him alone. I'm sure selective enforcement is at play, but at least in my experience they didn't care.
- oneeyedpigeon 3y ago
  Is there any jurisdiction where selective enforcement is not how drug laws are enforced? I'm guessing maybe somewhere like Japan, but I'm sure the vast majority of states do not enforce drug laws very consistently.
- u320 3y ago
  That is not the norm. You won't get charged for smoking in Copenhagen, but it will put you in a high risk category for smuggling so their typical response here is to search you. They were probably under a high workload and had to prioritize heavily.

Longhanks 3y ago

However, bear in mind that consumption is grounds for investigation because of the high probability of illegal acquisition or production.

stavros 3y ago

What did they legalize now, then?

fleischhauf 3y ago
buying, selling, production and possession (there are still regulations, but these things are now legal in some form)
arcticbull 3y ago
> Over-18s can now to carry up to 25 grams of dried cannabis and cultivate up to three marijuana plants at home
7bit 3y ago
> As of 1 April, adults in Germany are allowed to carry up to 25g of dried cannabis on them and cultivate up to three marijuana plants at home.
- stavros 3y ago
  Oh, it was allowed to consume it, but not carry it? That's a bit odd.
  - ce4 3y ago
    Isnt it reasonable to penalize drug trafficking over consumption, which just targets end users
    - stavros 3y ago
      It is, it's just a bit odd that I can be prosecuted while smoking a blunt, not because I'm smoking it but because I have it.
  - omnibrain 3y ago
    No, it makes sense with the philosophy of german law. It's not illegal to harm yourself. It is not illegal to flee from the police or from prison. But of course there are various crimes surrounding the allowed behaviour.

antfarm 3y ago

Possession of certain substances sure isn’t legal in Germany.