4 ms·

> If one side says it's raining and the other claims it's dry as a bone, "both sides" is irrelevant. That's a terrible example. Nobody is claiming that report

by refurb 3y ago

> If one side says it's raining and the other claims it's dry as a bone, "both sides" is irrelevant. That's a terrible example. Nobody is claiming that reporters should be report on undeniably false statements. I don't expect reporters to report on a lunar landing then include a bunch of stuff that the Apollo landing is fake. But that's not what's happening here, is it? What you have is reporters reporting on one side of an opinion. Opinions are not facts, they are a subjective judgement of facts. What many reporters do is start with an opinion, then write an article with selective inclusion of facts to support that opinion. That's garbage reporting. It's not news it's writing an opinion column. > There's the little detail of 14 year olds going to school, working a few hours per day, and… when do they get to take part in extracurriculars? When do they get to do homework? When do they get to study for quizzes and tests? When do they get to work on class projects? You realize that work is voluntary right? This law doesn't force minors to work? And usually when you work you "pick up shifts"? They do all those things when they aren't in school and aren't working. And you're looking at this with a very upper middle class perspective. Extracurricular activities? Play games? Free time? Some families don't have that luxury. Kids work because the family needs the income. I'm not sure banning work so that families have less income is really helping the poor. And you know what? Some kid want to work. If given the choice between surfing Tik Tok, or playing on the soccer team, they choose work. They like having extra money. They like working in an industry they plan to enter full time for the experience. It's not the 1920's. We aren't sending 10 year olds down in coal mines.

ttfkam 3y ago
Voluntary? For someone in middle school? For the vast majority of these kids, I guarantee you it wasn't their idea. In seven states, you must be 18 to get married. In the rest, it isn't that minors are rushing to head down the aisle. In 1959, the UN General Assembly adopted the Declaration of the Rights of the Child, which defines children's rights to protection, education, health care, shelter, and good nutrition. The ONLY country that refuses to ratify it is the US. Why? Many states reserve the right to exercise the death penalty on minors and still allow child brides, where several states have no minimum age at all to which parents can choose their minor's spouse—commonly a much-older male adult. We have states willing to send 10 year olds down the aisle today in the name of "religious freedom". As for "we aren't sending 10 year olds down in coal mines," that's only because we aren't sending anyone down into coal mines much anymore. It is an industry well into decline with scarce jobs for adults. As a nation, more and more kids are ending up in jobs that violate the law for their hazardous nature, like meat packing and roofing. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/child-labor-laws-migrants-illegal-jobs-labor-department/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/child-labor-laws-migrants-i... And while these particular jobs are still illegal for kids to have, there are both a lot of adults trying to get more kids working these and other jobs as well as legislators (overwhelmingly if not exclusively from just one side of the political aisle) trying to tear down what relatively few job prohibitions exist for children. I think it's more than fair to call out efforts to expand the number of jobs that kids can be pushed into at a young age as a trend rather than a one-off. In Arkansas, a bill signed by Governor Sanders removes the requirements for kids under 16 to prove their age and provide parental consent to get jobs. The Governor of Iowa recently signed into law a bill that loosens protections for kids in employment. It extends the hours in which they are allowed to be on the clock, it opens up more potential options for where kids can work, and it even allows kids as young as 16 to serve alcohol in restaurants. Hilariously, the 16-year-old teenagers would be required to have training on "prevention and response to sexual harassment" when serving alcohol to adult strangers. (Might as well remove seat belt laws as long as we teach folks about the dangers of car accidents.) Some kids want to work. Some kids would want to race Formula 1 too. When did we decide as a nation to have kids do whatever they want regardless of the risks posed to them? No, this trend isn't about the kids. It's the adults who are falling down on their jobs.
- refurb 3y ago
  > Voluntary? For someone in middle school? For the vast majority of these kids, I guarantee you it wasn't their idea. Middle school? So under 8th grade or 13 years of age? That employment is already illegal. We're talking about about 15-18 year olds (high school). Can you share the data you have that "the vast majority of minors employed, aren't employed voluntarily"? That's a bold claim. According to the BOL, 1 out of 5 minor between 16-18 were employed outside of school hours. Are you suggesting a large portion of those are working involuntarily? > In seven states, you must be 18 to get married. You're changing the subject. We're talking about minors working. > As a nation, more and more kids are ending up in jobs that violate the law for their hazardous nature, like meat packing and roofing. As you admit, and the article states - those minors are illegally employed. Thus the law already bans it. > In Arkansas, a bill signed by Governor Sanders removes the requirements for kids under 16 to prove their age and provide parental consent to get jobs. All that law does is eliminate a permitting system. California doesn't require such permits if the child isn't in school. Vermont or Colorado doesn't require them if they work outside school hours. It doesn't sounds like Arkansas is really standing out as doing something out of the ordinary. > The Governor of Iowa recently signed into law a bill that loosens protections for kids in employment Maybe you missed my analysis above. I looked up the law and read it. Did you? None of it seems all that weird. It provides protection against hazardous jobs, it limits hours, preventing it from interfering with school. > When did we decide as a nation to have kids do whatever they want regardless of the risks posed to them? Are you suggesting that these laws "allow kids to do whatever they want"?

by refurb 3y ago

ttfkam 3y ago

Voluntary? For someone in middle school? For the vast majority of these kids, I guarantee you it wasn't their idea. In seven states, you must be 18 to get married. In the rest, it isn't that minors are rushing to head down the aisle. In 1959, the UN General Assembly adopted the Declaration of the Rights of the Child, which defines children's rights to protection, education, health care, shelter, and good nutrition. The ONLY country that refuses to ratify it is the US. Why? Many states reserve the right to exercise the death penalty on minors and still allow child brides, where several states have no minimum age at all to which parents can choose their minor's spouse—commonly a much-older male adult. We have states willing to send 10 year olds down the aisle today in the name of "religious freedom". As for "we aren't sending 10 year olds down in coal mines," that's only because we aren't sending anyone down into coal mines much anymore. It is an industry well into decline with scarce jobs for adults. As a nation, more and more kids are ending up in jobs that violate the law for their hazardous nature, like meat packing and roofing. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/child-labor-laws-migrants-illegal-jobs-labor-department/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/child-labor-laws-migrants-i... And while these particular jobs are still illegal for kids to have, there are both a lot of adults trying to get more kids working these and other jobs as well as legislators (overwhelmingly if not exclusively from just one side of the political aisle) trying to tear down what relatively few job prohibitions exist for children. I think it's more than fair to call out efforts to expand the number of jobs that kids can be pushed into at a young age as a trend rather than a one-off. In Arkansas, a bill signed by Governor Sanders removes the requirements for kids under 16 to prove their age and provide parental consent to get jobs. The Governor of Iowa recently signed into law a bill that loosens protections for kids in employment. It extends the hours in which they are allowed to be on the clock, it opens up more potential options for where kids can work, and it even allows kids as young as 16 to serve alcohol in restaurants. Hilariously, the 16-year-old teenagers would be required to have training on "prevention and response to sexual harassment" when serving alcohol to adult strangers. (Might as well remove seat belt laws as long as we teach folks about the dangers of car accidents.) Some kids want to work. Some kids would want to race Formula 1 too. When did we decide as a nation to have kids do whatever they want regardless of the risks posed to them? No, this trend isn't about the kids. It's the adults who are falling down on their jobs.

refurb 3y ago
> Voluntary? For someone in middle school? For the vast majority of these kids, I guarantee you it wasn't their idea. Middle school? So under 8th grade or 13 years of age? That employment is already illegal. We're talking about about 15-18 year olds (high school). Can you share the data you have that "the vast majority of minors employed, aren't employed voluntarily"? That's a bold claim. According to the BOL, 1 out of 5 minor between 16-18 were employed outside of school hours. Are you suggesting a large portion of those are working involuntarily? > In seven states, you must be 18 to get married. You're changing the subject. We're talking about minors working. > As a nation, more and more kids are ending up in jobs that violate the law for their hazardous nature, like meat packing and roofing. As you admit, and the article states - those minors are illegally employed. Thus the law already bans it. > In Arkansas, a bill signed by Governor Sanders removes the requirements for kids under 16 to prove their age and provide parental consent to get jobs. All that law does is eliminate a permitting system. California doesn't require such permits if the child isn't in school. Vermont or Colorado doesn't require them if they work outside school hours. It doesn't sounds like Arkansas is really standing out as doing something out of the ordinary. > The Governor of Iowa recently signed into law a bill that loosens protections for kids in employment Maybe you missed my analysis above. I looked up the law and read it. Did you? None of it seems all that weird. It provides protection against hazardous jobs, it limits hours, preventing it from interfering with school. > When did we decide as a nation to have kids do whatever they want regardless of the risks posed to them? Are you suggesting that these laws "allow kids to do whatever they want"?