4 ms·

I think it's not a good idea to cram it all into colors. Many of these things are already possible in modern editors. Through hover, squiggly lines, faded out l

I think it's not a good idea to cram it all into colors. Many of these things are already possible in modern editors. Through hover, squiggly lines, faded out lines, marking at the left / right of the lines or other hints. If you do it all with colors, you are introducing different modes. And modes should be avoided if possible UX. https://www.nngroup.com/articles/modes/ https://www.nngroup.com/articles/modes/

imiric 3y ago
> And modes should be avoided if possible UX. https://www.nngroup.com/articles/modes/ https://www.nngroup.com/articles/modes/ I don't get that conclusion from the article. The summary is that modes are useful for exposing a large number of features using a limited number of input controls, but that care should be taken to make each mode visually distinctive, and to not use them when mode input errors could have disastrous consequences. I get some of the criticism, but those are minor concerns to decide to avoid them altogether. Modal UIs can make users much more productive, and input more intuitive, after an initial adjustment period. Consider the Normal/command mode in Vim. With just a few keystrokes you can operate on text in a fraction of time and effort than in Insert/editing mode. Not only that, but commands are combined using intuitive mnemonics (`cw`, `di(`, etc.), which makes them easy to remember and discover. Whenever I go back to an editor that uses key chords for commands, I gain a larger appreciation for modal UIs.
- bmicraft 3y ago
  Sorry but calling vim "easy to discover" is a bit of a stretch if I've ever seen one
  - imiric 3y ago
    I didn't claim that Vim was easy to learn, it certainly has a learning curve. But once you go through `vimtutor` and keep some cheatsheets handy during the adjustment, the actual command composition becomes rather intuitive and discoverable. This is much more user friendly than remembering a list of Ctrl+Alt+<something> key combinations found in non-modal UIs.
  - ramses0 3y ago
    Vim has Motions, Commands, and Commands that affect Motions. Move-by-word is a motion: w Search is a motion: /foo Next match is a motion: n Delete is a command that takes a motion: * dw * dn * d/bar ...nearly ad-infinitum. (eg: numeric repetition is a command that takes a command or a motion: 3dw, 3j)
    - cruffle_duffle 3y ago
      That is probably one of the more helpful tips I’ve read about vim in a long while!
      - ramses0 3y ago
        Would you like to know more? http://www.robertames.com/blog.cgi/entries/physics-of-vim.html http://www.robertames.com/blog.cgi/entries/physics-of-vim.ht...
    - Izkata 3y ago
      > 3dw I can't say how they're implemented, but I think of repetitions as a distinct third thing, because this also works: d3w
      - mst 3y ago
        Yes and no? 3dw is 3(dw) is dw dw dw d3w is d(3w) is d(w w w) So the number is doing basically the same thing in both cases. (this is not a criticism of your mental model, jusst me musing)
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
Jeff_Brown 3y ago
Easily solved. Just let the user switch between color schemes, rather than impose them all at once.

imiric 3y ago

> And modes should be avoided if possible UX. https://www.nngroup.com/articles/modes/ https://www.nngroup.com/articles/modes/ I don't get that conclusion from the article. The summary is that modes are useful for exposing a large number of features using a limited number of input controls, but that care should be taken to make each mode visually distinctive, and to not use them when mode input errors could have disastrous consequences. I get some of the criticism, but those are minor concerns to decide to avoid them altogether. Modal UIs can make users much more productive, and input more intuitive, after an initial adjustment period. Consider the Normal/command mode in Vim. With just a few keystrokes you can operate on text in a fraction of time and effort than in Insert/editing mode. Not only that, but commands are combined using intuitive mnemonics (`cw`, `di(`, etc.), which makes them easy to remember and discover. Whenever I go back to an editor that uses key chords for commands, I gain a larger appreciation for modal UIs.

bmicraft 3y ago
Sorry but calling vim "easy to discover" is a bit of a stretch if I've ever seen one
- imiric 3y ago
  I didn't claim that Vim was easy to learn, it certainly has a learning curve. But once you go through `vimtutor` and keep some cheatsheets handy during the adjustment, the actual command composition becomes rather intuitive and discoverable. This is much more user friendly than remembering a list of Ctrl+Alt+<something> key combinations found in non-modal UIs.
- ramses0 3y ago
  Vim has Motions, Commands, and Commands that affect Motions. Move-by-word is a motion: w Search is a motion: /foo Next match is a motion: n Delete is a command that takes a motion: * dw * dn * d/bar ...nearly ad-infinitum. (eg: numeric repetition is a command that takes a command or a motion: 3dw, 3j)
  - cruffle_duffle 3y ago
    That is probably one of the more helpful tips I’ve read about vim in a long while!
    - ramses0 3y ago
      Would you like to know more? http://www.robertames.com/blog.cgi/entries/physics-of-vim.html http://www.robertames.com/blog.cgi/entries/physics-of-vim.ht...
  - Izkata 3y ago
    > 3dw I can't say how they're implemented, but I think of repetitions as a distinct third thing, because this also works: d3w
    - mst 3y ago
      Yes and no? 3dw is 3(dw) is dw dw dw d3w is d(3w) is d(w w w) So the number is doing basically the same thing in both cases. (this is not a criticism of your mental model, jusst me musing)
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]

Jeff_Brown 3y ago

Easily solved. Just let the user switch between color schemes, rather than impose them all at once.