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>I'm cheering him on, even though his complaints were a little melodramatic. I've really soured on him when he literally went "I'm going to fix twitter search,

>I'm cheering him on, even though his complaints were a little melodramatic. I've really soured on him when he literally went "I'm going to fix twitter search, hire me elon" and then went to public saying "Hey, want an internship? Fix it, and then MIT license your code(so he could use it lol), and maybe we can talk - oh btw I have no real authority to give anyone an internship." He might be a brilliant programmer and problem solver, but that incident left a very sour "Grifter" vibes.

quantumwoke 3y ago
I soured on him a bit more when I watched some of his stream yesterday and he was ranting about diversity being a root of evil in Silicon Valley. Struck me that he hasn’t matured much since he was slinging mud at Sony and Apple.
- UberFly 3y ago
  He seems to be the type who doesn't care who's "soured on him".
hughesjj 3y ago
Yeah, I was feeling similar vibes back when Lex Friedman interviewed him for some self driving stuff back in the day (...I've soured on lex too since he's not really an interviewer/journalist so much as a host/promoter and rarely gets to anything interesting in his talks imo). His work for jailbreaking/actually being able to own the devices we pay for back in the iPhone+PS3 days was and is still inspiring, but I think being so smart and encountering so much bullshit in his life kind of led him to the 'rockstar coder I know better than you regardless of domain' personality, and that leaves him both a bit grating and underquipped to drive consensus. He's still a great wrench to throw into the bullshit machine though, and the guy is smarter and more accomplished with computers than I'm ever likely to be.
- infogulch 3y ago
  This is a great take. We need more people that are willing and able to jump in and wreck new bullshit machines as they crop up in diverse industries. They can even keep their boastful grandstanding attitude as compensation.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    No thanks. We do need people to wreck the bullshit machines, but they don't have to be total asshats. That's not inherent to being that smart.
    - infogulch 3y ago
      What if the "wants to wreck bullshit machines" trait often co-occurrs with the "grandstanding attitude" trait? You'd be unnecessarily restricting the applicant pool because you don't like how they express themselves, which seems pretty dumb given that we're being flooded by bullshit machines.
      - fragmede 3y ago
        We're surrounded by assholes. It's up to you which one you'd rather deal with, bullshit machines or assholes. I'd rather we have neither, but between the two I'd rather bullshit machines because then I don't have to deal with assholes. You are free to choose dealing with assholes and fewer bullshit machines though.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  From the public seat, those exploits are the only thing he managed, and hardly matters a couple of device generations later.
spirobelv2 3y ago
I have really soured on you after reading this comment. It added zero value
- lannisterstark 3y ago
  That is great, George. You didn't have to comment either though ;)
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
noch 3y ago
> He might be a brilliant programmer and problem solver, but that incident left a very sour "Grifter" vibes. Your algorithm for "who is a grifter" is buggy. You can tell someone is not a grifter based on what code they ship, not what words they say ("Cypherpunks write code" being the mantra). Failure doesn't prove someone is a grifter, btw. Not acknowledging failure is what makes one a grifter. A grifter would continue to draw a Twitter salary without actually fixing anything and were many such cases before Musk took over! Instead, Hotz quit upon realizing that he couldn't do what he said and publicly acknowledged that he couldn't fix Twitter search. This is also why his companies/projects have bounties instead of "internships". Their code is open source and actually writing code is a simple filter that eliminates people who don't write code but are good at _saying_ that they will. By not even guaranteeing a paid internship in exchange for a pull request, he ensures a contributor's incentives are aligned with improving the technology as opposed to gaming a hiring process. And he pays cash for bounties so you can accurately evaluate whether it's worth your time to contribute. In other words, he learned from his failure at Twitter that if Twitter's code had been open he would have been able to make an accurate assessment of whether he could fix it by actually submitting a PR!
- lannisterstark 3y ago
  >Failure doesn't prove someone is a grifter, btw. Not acknowledging failure is what makes one a grifter Is this why he deleted all instances of the said tweet?
dotnet00 3y ago
He's given me grifter vibes for a while, so it's nice to see that others are catching on too. Feels like the usual trend of someone actually skilled in one specific thing (hacking) letting the social media notoriety get to his head and thinking he's just as much of a genius at everything else.

quantumwoke 3y ago

I soured on him a bit more when I watched some of his stream yesterday and he was ranting about diversity being a root of evil in Silicon Valley. Struck me that he hasn’t matured much since he was slinging mud at Sony and Apple.

UberFly 3y ago
He seems to be the type who doesn't care who's "soured on him".

hughesjj 3y ago

Yeah, I was feeling similar vibes back when Lex Friedman interviewed him for some self driving stuff back in the day (...I've soured on lex too since he's not really an interviewer/journalist so much as a host/promoter and rarely gets to anything interesting in his talks imo). His work for jailbreaking/actually being able to own the devices we pay for back in the iPhone+PS3 days was and is still inspiring, but I think being so smart and encountering so much bullshit in his life kind of led him to the 'rockstar coder I know better than you regardless of domain' personality, and that leaves him both a bit grating and underquipped to drive consensus. He's still a great wrench to throw into the bullshit machine though, and the guy is smarter and more accomplished with computers than I'm ever likely to be.

infogulch 3y ago
This is a great take. We need more people that are willing and able to jump in and wreck new bullshit machines as they crop up in diverse industries. They can even keep their boastful grandstanding attitude as compensation.
- fragmede 3y ago
  No thanks. We do need people to wreck the bullshit machines, but they don't have to be total asshats. That's not inherent to being that smart.
  - infogulch 3y ago
    What if the "wants to wreck bullshit machines" trait often co-occurrs with the "grandstanding attitude" trait? You'd be unnecessarily restricting the applicant pool because you don't like how they express themselves, which seems pretty dumb given that we're being flooded by bullshit machines.
    - fragmede 3y ago
      We're surrounded by assholes. It's up to you which one you'd rather deal with, bullshit machines or assholes. I'd rather we have neither, but between the two I'd rather bullshit machines because then I don't have to deal with assholes. You are free to choose dealing with assholes and fewer bullshit machines though.
pjmlp 3y ago
From the public seat, those exploits are the only thing he managed, and hardly matters a couple of device generations later.

spirobelv2 3y ago

I have really soured on you after reading this comment. It added zero value

lannisterstark 3y ago
That is great, George. You didn't have to comment either though ;)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

noch 3y ago

> He might be a brilliant programmer and problem solver, but that incident left a very sour "Grifter" vibes. Your algorithm for "who is a grifter" is buggy. You can tell someone is not a grifter based on what code they ship, not what words they say ("Cypherpunks write code" being the mantra). Failure doesn't prove someone is a grifter, btw. Not acknowledging failure is what makes one a grifter. A grifter would continue to draw a Twitter salary without actually fixing anything and were many such cases before Musk took over! Instead, Hotz quit upon realizing that he couldn't do what he said and publicly acknowledged that he couldn't fix Twitter search. This is also why his companies/projects have bounties instead of "internships". Their code is open source and actually writing code is a simple filter that eliminates people who don't write code but are good at _saying_ that they will. By not even guaranteeing a paid internship in exchange for a pull request, he ensures a contributor's incentives are aligned with improving the technology as opposed to gaming a hiring process. And he pays cash for bounties so you can accurately evaluate whether it's worth your time to contribute. In other words, he learned from his failure at Twitter that if Twitter's code had been open he would have been able to make an accurate assessment of whether he could fix it by actually submitting a PR!

lannisterstark 3y ago
>Failure doesn't prove someone is a grifter, btw. Not acknowledging failure is what makes one a grifter Is this why he deleted all instances of the said tweet?

dotnet00 3y ago

He's given me grifter vibes for a while, so it's nice to see that others are catching on too. Feels like the usual trend of someone actually skilled in one specific thing (hacking) letting the social media notoriety get to his head and thinking he's just as much of a genius at everything else.