5 ms·

This story is unbelievable to me. It leaves way too many unexplained conclusions. Russia wants to kill US diplomats (why? All of them? Some of them? One of the

This story is unbelievable to me. It leaves way too many unexplained conclusions. Russia wants to kill US diplomats (why? All of them? Some of them? One of them?) so rather than doing some botched robbery or fake suicide... they invent a "direct energy weapon" to kill them? Or maybe they're researching this cool new direct energy weapon and they decide to test it out on... US diplomats? You'd think they could pick a less conspicuous target to test out their assassination laser beams. Definitely withholding judgement until we learn more.

zrn900 3y ago
[flagged]
- dralley 3y ago
  What is your definition of "demonize"? The "balloon incident" was the exact opposite of hyped by the government, they kept it (and all the previous incidents) completely quiet until some rando with a telescope tweeted a picture of it and the media picked up the story. And Russia's leaders repeatedly and openly declare their hostile intentions towards "the west" on a near-daily basis, they've been implicated in assassinations and attempted assassinations using chemical and radiological weapons on Western soil, have blown up arms depots in Czechia and Bulgaria resulting in deaths, frequently "question the statehood" of their neighbors including not just Ukraine but Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, have state media run pieces where they threaten to nuke the UK, etc.
  - zrn900 3y ago
    > What is your definition of "demonize"? This: https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/china-news/21091-a-500-million-dollar-business-america-s-state-sponsored-anti-china-propaganda.html https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/china-news/21091-a-500-million-... Leading to things like this: https://i.imgur.com/2pJlIK3.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/2pJlIK3.jpeg > the media picked up the story That's how the nonexistent Iraqi WMDs were sold - by the entire media repeating the State Dept. talking points for years. Manufacturing consent at its finest. > And Russia's leaders repeatedly and openly declare their hostile intentions towards "the west" They have warned about nato expansion and the overt, publicized plans of US think tanks and policymakers about destroying Russia for two decades. When the US came to their door, they put their foot down. The US policymakers are STILL talking about how they WILL destroy Russia. All of that talk is a violation of Article 51 of the UN and gives a casus belli to any country targeted in that manner. > frequently "question the statehood" of their neighbors including not just Ukraine but Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania The US published a map to divide Russia into regions years ago. Russia started talking about Ukraine's statehood after the peace attempts were foiled by the Bojo clown and it turned out that the Russian-speaking regions have no chance of existing as equal citizens in a united Ukraine as they changed the freaking constitution to ban the Russian language and declare them 2nd class people. Russia doesn't question the statehood of the baltic countries - it says that they made them actual countries. So you are literally making things up by deriving on US propaganda. > not to mention literally flying cruise missiles over NATO territory to attack Ukraine... The lack of info and arrogance is overwhelming. Its worse than how it was in 2003. Its Nato who went to Ukraine. Not Russia who went to Mexico. This is without talking about how the CIA had been training neonazis since 1991. The people who support a country that has been publishing and then implementing policy about how to destroy a country are talking about the 'aggression' from the targeted country. The bully is the victim. Meanwhile that same bully is already spending $500 million to demonize the NEXT target as its supporters still buy into the propaganda as willingly as they did in 2003. Except this time, the targets have nuclear weapons. You people are literally worse than how the Americans were in 2003 and desperately need to listen to some Chomsky. He has the patience to explain things. I don't.
    - dralley 3y ago
      [flagged]
    - 2devnull 3y ago
      “They have warned about nato expansion and the overt, publicized plans of US think tanks and policymakers about destroying Russia for two decade.” Ah, you didn’t watch the tucker Putin interview! First question was whether NATO’s threat caused the Ukrainian invasion, and Putin quite clearly said, I’ll paraphrase, “Nope, Ukraine has always belonged to Russia.” Puty’s actual response was 30 minute history lesson on why Russia owns Ukraine. No mention of NATO. Anyway, you don’t know what you’re talking about it seems, or Putin is lying about his intentions, which I suppose is totally on brand for genocidal despots.
      - zrn900 3y ago
        [flagged]
- orbital-decay 3y ago
  Just FYI, the outlet that makes the claim is Russian, and is disputing the "State Dept. propaganda" that is officially not even sure it's an attack, let alone makes any attribution, and that's after several years of investigations that haven't even discovered any physical mechanism of action. (Surely GRU doesn't possess alien magic...)
- 2devnull 3y ago
  Hacker news is a place for intellectual curiosity, not ideological cliche.
  - zrn900 3y ago
    [flagged]
FabHK 3y ago
Who says Russia wants to kill them? Maybe it just wants to render them ineffective. That has been achieved ("Others have suffered such severe long-term cognitive and vestibular aftereffects that they can no longer function on a day-to-day basis and have been medically retired from government service."). I think it's sensible to suspend judgment for now, but this is clearly one of the two main plausible contenders for an explanation of the observed phenomena.
lostlogin 3y ago
> Definitely withholding judgement until we learn more. This is a key point made in the article. “A consensus has formed among the growing community of AHI sufferers that the U.S. government — and the CIA in particular — is hiding the full extent of what it knows about the source of Havana Syndrome. The victims offer two general hypotheses as to why. The first is that releasing the full intelligence around Russian involvement might be so shocking as to convince the American people and their representatives that Moscow has committed an act of war against the United States, thereby raising thorny questions as to how a nuclear power fond of showing off its hypersonic missiles ought to be made to pay. The second is that acknowledging Havana Syndrome is caused by a foreign adversary could put a damper on recruitment to the CIA and State Department.” This misses a third key point. The US government has a complicated relationship with Russia. The Republican Party in particular.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  > The US government has a complicated relationship with Russia. The Republican Party in particular. not really that complicated: $$$$$ because corporations are people, and can donate. that means foreign corporations. ...and also the NRA. what was that little red-headed Russian lady's name again?
  - JetSpiegel 3y ago
    Maria Butina. Isn't she in the Duma now?
mhh__ 3y ago
I haven't read the article yet but I think sometimes its good to be loud and good to get caught because you're saying "we can get you" to the people the public don't know exist yet.
russianGuy83829 3y ago
The aim seems not to kill, but to severely damage. The article makes a point that American diplomats feel betrayed that noone takes the attacks seriously, and are intimidated to work on Russian affairs.
baybal2 3y ago
[dead]
tim333 3y ago
Russia has a long record of feeling it is at war with the west, especially the US, and trying to fuck with it where it can.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  Russia has a long history of assassinating people, poisoning opposition, and generally playing dirty with regards to international affairs
- etc-hosts 3y ago
  I don't think this is unique in any way. The US has spent many hundreds of billions doing the same against non-Western interests.
shmobot 3y ago
The tactics of Russian operatives have always been more nuanced than simply "eliminating the adversary". Typically, such extreme measures are reserved for traitors, like Sergei Skripal or the helicopter pilot who defected to Ukraine. In certain instances, they opt for psychological warfare techniques, similar to those employed by the Stasi in East Germany during the 1970s and 1980s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung Guess where Putin was stationed in the '80s during his tenure as a KGB officer?
neom 3y ago
60 minutes gave more details yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdPSD1SUYCY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdPSD1SUYCY - good watch.
e40 3y ago
If you watch the 60 Minutes doc, it is literally taking out of service top people working against Russia. Killing them would be crazy. This weapon, whatever it is, is perfect. Just enough doubt (by people like you and other Russian plants) to create no clear answer. EDIT: I'm not calling you a Russia shill. The linked article and the 60 Minutes doc are literally what everyone's been waiting for. I was on the sidelines before, but not now.

zrn900 3y ago

[flagged]

dralley 3y ago
What is your definition of "demonize"? The "balloon incident" was the exact opposite of hyped by the government, they kept it (and all the previous incidents) completely quiet until some rando with a telescope tweeted a picture of it and the media picked up the story. And Russia's leaders repeatedly and openly declare their hostile intentions towards "the west" on a near-daily basis, they've been implicated in assassinations and attempted assassinations using chemical and radiological weapons on Western soil, have blown up arms depots in Czechia and Bulgaria resulting in deaths, frequently "question the statehood" of their neighbors including not just Ukraine but Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, have state media run pieces where they threaten to nuke the UK, etc.
- zrn900 3y ago
  > What is your definition of "demonize"? This: https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/china-news/21091-a-500-million-dollar-business-america-s-state-sponsored-anti-china-propaganda.html https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/china-news/21091-a-500-million-... Leading to things like this: https://i.imgur.com/2pJlIK3.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/2pJlIK3.jpeg > the media picked up the story That's how the nonexistent Iraqi WMDs were sold - by the entire media repeating the State Dept. talking points for years. Manufacturing consent at its finest. > And Russia's leaders repeatedly and openly declare their hostile intentions towards "the west" They have warned about nato expansion and the overt, publicized plans of US think tanks and policymakers about destroying Russia for two decades. When the US came to their door, they put their foot down. The US policymakers are STILL talking about how they WILL destroy Russia. All of that talk is a violation of Article 51 of the UN and gives a casus belli to any country targeted in that manner. > frequently "question the statehood" of their neighbors including not just Ukraine but Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania The US published a map to divide Russia into regions years ago. Russia started talking about Ukraine's statehood after the peace attempts were foiled by the Bojo clown and it turned out that the Russian-speaking regions have no chance of existing as equal citizens in a united Ukraine as they changed the freaking constitution to ban the Russian language and declare them 2nd class people. Russia doesn't question the statehood of the baltic countries - it says that they made them actual countries. So you are literally making things up by deriving on US propaganda. > not to mention literally flying cruise missiles over NATO territory to attack Ukraine... The lack of info and arrogance is overwhelming. Its worse than how it was in 2003. Its Nato who went to Ukraine. Not Russia who went to Mexico. This is without talking about how the CIA had been training neonazis since 1991. The people who support a country that has been publishing and then implementing policy about how to destroy a country are talking about the 'aggression' from the targeted country. The bully is the victim. Meanwhile that same bully is already spending $500 million to demonize the NEXT target as its supporters still buy into the propaganda as willingly as they did in 2003. Except this time, the targets have nuclear weapons. You people are literally worse than how the Americans were in 2003 and desperately need to listen to some Chomsky. He has the patience to explain things. I don't.
  - dralley 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - 2devnull 3y ago
    “They have warned about nato expansion and the overt, publicized plans of US think tanks and policymakers about destroying Russia for two decade.” Ah, you didn’t watch the tucker Putin interview! First question was whether NATO’s threat caused the Ukrainian invasion, and Putin quite clearly said, I’ll paraphrase, “Nope, Ukraine has always belonged to Russia.” Puty’s actual response was 30 minute history lesson on why Russia owns Ukraine. No mention of NATO. Anyway, you don’t know what you’re talking about it seems, or Putin is lying about his intentions, which I suppose is totally on brand for genocidal despots.
    - zrn900 3y ago
      [flagged]
orbital-decay 3y ago
Just FYI, the outlet that makes the claim is Russian, and is disputing the "State Dept. propaganda" that is officially not even sure it's an attack, let alone makes any attribution, and that's after several years of investigations that haven't even discovered any physical mechanism of action. (Surely GRU doesn't possess alien magic...)
2devnull 3y ago
Hacker news is a place for intellectual curiosity, not ideological cliche.
- zrn900 3y ago
  [flagged]

FabHK 3y ago

Who says Russia wants to kill them? Maybe it just wants to render them ineffective. That has been achieved ("Others have suffered such severe long-term cognitive and vestibular aftereffects that they can no longer function on a day-to-day basis and have been medically retired from government service."). I think it's sensible to suspend judgment for now, but this is clearly one of the two main plausible contenders for an explanation of the observed phenomena.

lostlogin 3y ago

> Definitely withholding judgement until we learn more. This is a key point made in the article. “A consensus has formed among the growing community of AHI sufferers that the U.S. government — and the CIA in particular — is hiding the full extent of what it knows about the source of Havana Syndrome. The victims offer two general hypotheses as to why. The first is that releasing the full intelligence around Russian involvement might be so shocking as to convince the American people and their representatives that Moscow has committed an act of war against the United States, thereby raising thorny questions as to how a nuclear power fond of showing off its hypersonic missiles ought to be made to pay. The second is that acknowledging Havana Syndrome is caused by a foreign adversary could put a damper on recruitment to the CIA and State Department.” This misses a third key point. The US government has a complicated relationship with Russia. The Republican Party in particular.

red-iron-pine 3y ago
> The US government has a complicated relationship with Russia. The Republican Party in particular. not really that complicated: $$$$$ because corporations are people, and can donate. that means foreign corporations. ...and also the NRA. what was that little red-headed Russian lady's name again?
- JetSpiegel 3y ago
  Maria Butina. Isn't she in the Duma now?

mhh__ 3y ago

I haven't read the article yet but I think sometimes its good to be loud and good to get caught because you're saying "we can get you" to the people the public don't know exist yet.

russianGuy83829 3y ago

The aim seems not to kill, but to severely damage. The article makes a point that American diplomats feel betrayed that noone takes the attacks seriously, and are intimidated to work on Russian affairs.

baybal2 3y ago

[dead]

tim333 3y ago

Russia has a long record of feeling it is at war with the west, especially the US, and trying to fuck with it where it can.

red-iron-pine 3y ago
Russia has a long history of assassinating people, poisoning opposition, and generally playing dirty with regards to international affairs
etc-hosts 3y ago
I don't think this is unique in any way. The US has spent many hundreds of billions doing the same against non-Western interests.

shmobot 3y ago

The tactics of Russian operatives have always been more nuanced than simply "eliminating the adversary". Typically, such extreme measures are reserved for traitors, like Sergei Skripal or the helicopter pilot who defected to Ukraine. In certain instances, they opt for psychological warfare techniques, similar to those employed by the Stasi in East Germany during the 1970s and 1980s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung Guess where Putin was stationed in the '80s during his tenure as a KGB officer?

neom 3y ago

60 minutes gave more details yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdPSD1SUYCY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdPSD1SUYCY - good watch.

e40 3y ago

If you watch the 60 Minutes doc, it is literally taking out of service top people working against Russia. Killing them would be crazy. This weapon, whatever it is, is perfect. Just enough doubt (by people like you and other Russian plants) to create no clear answer. EDIT: I'm not calling you a Russia shill. The linked article and the 60 Minutes doc are literally what everyone's been waiting for. I was on the sidelines before, but not now.