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But this ignores the fact that if wages rise too much, the product or service the company sells may become uneconomic. I literally have seen people complain abo

But this ignores the fact that if wages rise too much, the product or service the company sells may become uneconomic. I literally have seen people complain about how "the man" is trying to keep wages down while at the same time bitching that their fast food meal costs $11 dollars. I guarantee many of these small business owners of places like restaurants are not exactly raking in the dough (in most cases a software engineer with like 5+ years of experience can make more money with less risk). I make a good living but I've noticed myself eating out less because it's tough for me to stomach a $100+ per person bill at even a reasonable (i.e. not super fancy) restaurant.

busterarm 3y ago
McDonalds has literally written into their quarterly filings that people who make below $40k/yr can't even afford to eat at their restaurants anymore and that their pricing (driven largely by rising wages) has moved their customer demographic up-market.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Thanks for that tidbit, I didn't know that. Totally agree. I always used to think of McDonald's as about as "cheap but gets the job done", now I think of it as "not-that-cheap and I can get the job done better at home".
verall 3y ago
> tough for me to stomach a $100+ per person bill at even a reasonable (i.e. not super fancy) restaurant food has gotten more expensive but it's not that expensive. $25 entrees is unaffordable for most people, how are you getting to $100/head at reasonable restaurants? Does everyone order the ribeye?
- dinkumthinkum 3y ago
  $100 a person at reasonable restaurants? lol. I guess one way to win arguments is to just make things up. Send links to the online menus please.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    It's not hard at all. Obviously things are very location dependent, but here is what I would call a "nice but not fancy" restaurant in downtown Austin, TX: https://www.tavernabylombardi.com/austin-downtown-menu#menu=new-menu https://www.tavernabylombardi.com/austin-downtown-menu#menu=.... First, note that "100+ per person" really means the total comes to 75-80 per person before tax and tip. It's not hard to hit that with a glass of 1 alcoholic beverage, some shared appetizers, a main course, and a shared dessert. To emphasize, there are obviously cheaper restaurants, and given how much it costs to live in Austin, I'm not bemoaning their prices. I'm just saying that pre-pandemic I would have thought of a $100+ meal in Austin as "very fancy, special occasion" place, and now it's easy to hit that at tons of places in Austin. I used to eat out a lot more at places like the above when it was ~$60 pre-pandemic, but it's not worth it to me at $100+.
    - silverquiet 3y ago
      I’d recommend Ramen Tatsu-ya. I didn’t get by all that much during the pandemic, so I was shocked when I did finally return and a bowl was still like $12. I’ll take that over McDonald’s every time.
      - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
        Oooh, thanks, great recommendation. I love Ramen Tatsu-ya but haven't been in a while. Just taking a look at their menu online and I'm also pretty shocked how comparatively low their prices are. Like their Hibi-Gibi Punch with Sake is $6. I can hardly remember the time I paid less than $10 for any alcoholic drink besides beer.
      - verall 3y ago
        tatsuya is old news, their tonkatsu broth is too thick IMO. Lot's of new ramen places to check out - Sazan (different style, really good, reasonable $), marufuku (overpriced but better than tatsuya), ichiumi (quite good and reasonable $)
    - maxerickson 3y ago
toomuchtodo 3y ago
> But this ignores the fact that if wages rise too much, the product or service the company sells may become uneconomic It doesn’t ignore it, it welcomes it. If the business requires underpaid or poverty level wage workers to survive, it is not a sustainable business. It is a transfer from the poor to the better off. Corporate profits can always come down if the business wants to attempt to survive, and failing that, it can close up shop. We’ve been living on aggregate suffering of a underclass to deliver consumer excess, broadly speaking. Like I said, structural demographics is breaking capitalism. The total fertility rate will continue to decline, locking in further future working age labor participation compression. Fast food is first, but it’ll work its way up the value chain as other low wage but high value jobs hit the wall (CNAs, home health aids, etc). https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/06/01/global-fertility-has-collapsed-with-profound-economic-consequences https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/06/01/global-fertilit... https://www.axios.com/2023/08/27/labor-shortages-air-traffic-health-care-teachers-police https://www.axios.com/2023/08/27/labor-shortages-air-traffic...
triceratops 3y ago
I make a good living but I can count on one hand the number of times I've eaten at a $100/person restaurant. I can't even fathom that being just a "reasonable, not super fancy" meal.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Pre-pandemic I would have probably said the same. But I'm guessing you don't live in Austin, TX, or you don't drink alcohol.

busterarm 3y ago

McDonalds has literally written into their quarterly filings that people who make below $40k/yr can't even afford to eat at their restaurants anymore and that their pricing (driven largely by rising wages) has moved their customer demographic up-market.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Thanks for that tidbit, I didn't know that. Totally agree. I always used to think of McDonald's as about as "cheap but gets the job done", now I think of it as "not-that-cheap and I can get the job done better at home".

verall 3y ago

> tough for me to stomach a $100+ per person bill at even a reasonable (i.e. not super fancy) restaurant food has gotten more expensive but it's not that expensive. $25 entrees is unaffordable for most people, how are you getting to $100/head at reasonable restaurants? Does everyone order the ribeye?

dinkumthinkum 3y ago
$100 a person at reasonable restaurants? lol. I guess one way to win arguments is to just make things up. Send links to the online menus please.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  It's not hard at all. Obviously things are very location dependent, but here is what I would call a "nice but not fancy" restaurant in downtown Austin, TX: https://www.tavernabylombardi.com/austin-downtown-menu#menu=new-menu https://www.tavernabylombardi.com/austin-downtown-menu#menu=.... First, note that "100+ per person" really means the total comes to 75-80 per person before tax and tip. It's not hard to hit that with a glass of 1 alcoholic beverage, some shared appetizers, a main course, and a shared dessert. To emphasize, there are obviously cheaper restaurants, and given how much it costs to live in Austin, I'm not bemoaning their prices. I'm just saying that pre-pandemic I would have thought of a $100+ meal in Austin as "very fancy, special occasion" place, and now it's easy to hit that at tons of places in Austin. I used to eat out a lot more at places like the above when it was ~$60 pre-pandemic, but it's not worth it to me at $100+.
  - silverquiet 3y ago
    I’d recommend Ramen Tatsu-ya. I didn’t get by all that much during the pandemic, so I was shocked when I did finally return and a bowl was still like $12. I’ll take that over McDonald’s every time.
    - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
      Oooh, thanks, great recommendation. I love Ramen Tatsu-ya but haven't been in a while. Just taking a look at their menu online and I'm also pretty shocked how comparatively low their prices are. Like their Hibi-Gibi Punch with Sake is $6. I can hardly remember the time I paid less than $10 for any alcoholic drink besides beer.
    - verall 3y ago
      tatsuya is old news, their tonkatsu broth is too thick IMO. Lot's of new ramen places to check out - Sazan (different style, really good, reasonable $), marufuku (overpriced but better than tatsuya), ichiumi (quite good and reasonable $)
  - maxerickson 3y ago

toomuchtodo 3y ago

> But this ignores the fact that if wages rise too much, the product or service the company sells may become uneconomic It doesn’t ignore it, it welcomes it. If the business requires underpaid or poverty level wage workers to survive, it is not a sustainable business. It is a transfer from the poor to the better off. Corporate profits can always come down if the business wants to attempt to survive, and failing that, it can close up shop. We’ve been living on aggregate suffering of a underclass to deliver consumer excess, broadly speaking. Like I said, structural demographics is breaking capitalism. The total fertility rate will continue to decline, locking in further future working age labor participation compression. Fast food is first, but it’ll work its way up the value chain as other low wage but high value jobs hit the wall (CNAs, home health aids, etc). https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/06/01/global-fertility-has-collapsed-with-profound-economic-consequences https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/06/01/global-fertilit... https://www.axios.com/2023/08/27/labor-shortages-air-traffic-health-care-teachers-police https://www.axios.com/2023/08/27/labor-shortages-air-traffic...

triceratops 3y ago

I make a good living but I can count on one hand the number of times I've eaten at a $100/person restaurant. I can't even fathom that being just a "reasonable, not super fancy" meal.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Pre-pandemic I would have probably said the same. But I'm guessing you don't live in Austin, TX, or you don't drink alcohol.