5 ms·

I'd accept "Republicans continue crusade against childhood innocence"

bongodongobob 3y ago
While I'll agree that a lot of their aims are definitely nefarious, I think the childhood innocence thing is a modern invention. Good intentions, but maybe misguided. Kids need chores, responsibilities, struggles etc. Coddling kids until they are 18 and then throwing them into the world with 0 life experience is just setting them up for failure. I had a paper route for a couple years when I was 12 and got a job at McDonalds when I was 14. A lot of this can be learned in extracurricular sports as well, but that's obviously not for everyone. Two a day football practices in summer were harder than any job I've ever had but no one says sports are bad for kids. I don't really see the difference, plus, you don't get paid for sports. Of course I'm not suggesting kids should be working in the coal mines, but I don't see anything wrong with summer or weekend jobs, working on the family farm, etc. It's good for them and a part of learning how to be an independent adult. Kids shouldn't be infantalized and sheltered through college.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- AnarchismIsCool 3y ago
  Agreed to an extent, it's ok for high school students to go get some work experience, I did when I was that age. Giving humans a window in their lives where they can focus purely on capturing a portion of ever expanding human knowledge, and, to be honest, hang out a bit, is a good thing in my opinion though. That said, lets not lose sight of what's going on here, the DoL has been trying to crack down on 13yo kids in meat packing plants. If this is the line that we're trying to push the overton window past, I want no part of it.
  - benTherenBack 3y ago
    [dead]
  - leereeves 3y ago
    Those are mostly unaccompanied minors who have no other options. If you want to allow them to live here (as many leftists do), how should they survive? > Dreier estimates that some 250,000 children have crossed into the U.S. without their parents in the last two years, and that the majority of them wind up working full-time jobs. https://www.npr.org/2023/05/04/1173697113/immigrant-child-labor-crisis https://www.npr.org/2023/05/04/1173697113/immigrant-child-la...
    - kthejoker2 3y ago
      The people who own those plants employing them are not "leftists", quit projecting biases.
      - leereeves 3y ago
        Hah, bias. Did you somehow miss the comments above? > Republicans seek to weaken laws against child labor > Republicans continue crusade against childhood innocence There's a lot of bias there. And if those claims were true (spoiler: they aren't, for counterexample, according to the article, Republican legislatures in Texas and Montana have strengthened laws, the Democrat legislature in New Jersey weakened them, and the Virginia state legislature unanimously approved increasing penalties), they'd imply Democrats don't want these unaccompanied minors to work. Even though this is not, in fact, a partisan issue, one thing is clear. There are many leftists in this discussion who don't want these unaccompanied minors to work. So how do you all expect them to survive?
- triceratops 3y ago
  > I had a paper route for a couple years when I was 12 and got a job at McDonalds when I was 14. Flipping burgers has always been legal, and remains legal. > Of course I'm not suggesting kids should be working in the coal mines From the article, Iowa now allows minors to work in "industrial laundries, light manufacturing, demolition, and roofing". Roofing consistently ranks among the top 10 most dangerous professions in the US, according to the BLS. Industrial laundries deal with heavy machinery and nasty chemicals.
- StewardMcOy 3y ago
  I dunno about blanket statements like that. It's situational, and sometimes up to nature rather than nurture. To outside observers, I was a fairly spoiled kid. I didn't have any jobs in high school, and I had a light load of chores. It's not that my parents were particularly wealthy, but I pushed back hard and was generally difficult with them, for the sake of preserving my study time, my free time, and getting a good night's sleep. But it paid off. I got a scholarship, and went to a state university. Classes started a few days after I turned eighteen. I went out and got a part-time job immediately to pay for living expenses. I worked hard and did my job well, graduated, and landed a job that paid better than my parents. From the get-go, I was a serious worker who put everything I had into the job while I was on the clock. I'm still that way today, and I find that people are either like that or they aren't. I find there's no correlation between the people who had jobs as teens and how serious, responsible, and industrious they are.
  - bongodongobob 3y ago
    And I hate to make blanket statements about generational stuff, but the incoming teenage generation grew up with social media and covid. These kids are extremely sheltered from my experience. I've got two neighbor kids that I talk to once in a while who are 10 and 12. They're squishy fat babies with 0 social skills and throw tantrums when they don't have their iPads. I invite them and their mom over when I have fires. They play games on their phones and can't make eye contact with me or have a conversation. I've lived across the street from a park for two years now and haven't seen any kids there ever. Not once. This is all very hand wavey but I'm worried about this new digital generation. I'm now the person I never thought I'd be saying this, but these kids are soft.
    - ttfkam 3y ago
      Grew up with social media and Covid. So… they grew up seeing their friends turned inside out from social pressures we never had to deal with and in the meantime they watched their grandparents and other members of older generations die of a disease prematurely while being physically isolated for an extended period of their formative years. In the meantime when back in class, they get periodic drills simulating someone trying to kill them, their friends, and their teachers en masse. "Soft" is not how I'd describe that experience.
refurb 3y ago
Allowing a 17 year old to work the night shift is a "crusade against childhood innocence"?

While I'll agree that a lot of their aims are definitely nefarious, I think the childhood innocence thing is a modern invention. Good intentions, but maybe misguided. Kids need chores, responsibilities, struggles etc. Coddling kids until they are 18 and then throwing them into the world with 0 life experience is just setting them up for failure. I had a paper route for a couple years when I was 12 and got a job at McDonalds when I was 14. A lot of this can be learned in extracurricular sports as well, but that's obviously not for everyone. Two a day football practices in summer were harder than any job I've ever had but no one says sports are bad for kids. I don't really see the difference, plus, you don't get paid for sports. Of course I'm not suggesting kids should be working in the coal mines, but I don't see anything wrong with summer or weekend jobs, working on the family farm, etc. It's good for them and a part of learning how to be an independent adult. Kids shouldn't be infantalized and sheltered through college.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
AnarchismIsCool 3y ago
Agreed to an extent, it's ok for high school students to go get some work experience, I did when I was that age. Giving humans a window in their lives where they can focus purely on capturing a portion of ever expanding human knowledge, and, to be honest, hang out a bit, is a good thing in my opinion though. That said, lets not lose sight of what's going on here, the DoL has been trying to crack down on 13yo kids in meat packing plants. If this is the line that we're trying to push the overton window past, I want no part of it.
- benTherenBack 3y ago
  [dead]
- leereeves 3y ago
  Those are mostly unaccompanied minors who have no other options. If you want to allow them to live here (as many leftists do), how should they survive? > Dreier estimates that some 250,000 children have crossed into the U.S. without their parents in the last two years, and that the majority of them wind up working full-time jobs. https://www.npr.org/2023/05/04/1173697113/immigrant-child-labor-crisis https://www.npr.org/2023/05/04/1173697113/immigrant-child-la...
  - kthejoker2 3y ago
    The people who own those plants employing them are not "leftists", quit projecting biases.
    - leereeves 3y ago
      Hah, bias. Did you somehow miss the comments above? > Republicans seek to weaken laws against child labor > Republicans continue crusade against childhood innocence There's a lot of bias there. And if those claims were true (spoiler: they aren't, for counterexample, according to the article, Republican legislatures in Texas and Montana have strengthened laws, the Democrat legislature in New Jersey weakened them, and the Virginia state legislature unanimously approved increasing penalties), they'd imply Democrats don't want these unaccompanied minors to work. Even though this is not, in fact, a partisan issue, one thing is clear. There are many leftists in this discussion who don't want these unaccompanied minors to work. So how do you all expect them to survive?
triceratops 3y ago
> I had a paper route for a couple years when I was 12 and got a job at McDonalds when I was 14. Flipping burgers has always been legal, and remains legal. > Of course I'm not suggesting kids should be working in the coal mines From the article, Iowa now allows minors to work in "industrial laundries, light manufacturing, demolition, and roofing". Roofing consistently ranks among the top 10 most dangerous professions in the US, according to the BLS. Industrial laundries deal with heavy machinery and nasty chemicals.
StewardMcOy 3y ago
I dunno about blanket statements like that. It's situational, and sometimes up to nature rather than nurture. To outside observers, I was a fairly spoiled kid. I didn't have any jobs in high school, and I had a light load of chores. It's not that my parents were particularly wealthy, but I pushed back hard and was generally difficult with them, for the sake of preserving my study time, my free time, and getting a good night's sleep. But it paid off. I got a scholarship, and went to a state university. Classes started a few days after I turned eighteen. I went out and got a part-time job immediately to pay for living expenses. I worked hard and did my job well, graduated, and landed a job that paid better than my parents. From the get-go, I was a serious worker who put everything I had into the job while I was on the clock. I'm still that way today, and I find that people are either like that or they aren't. I find there's no correlation between the people who had jobs as teens and how serious, responsible, and industrious they are.
- bongodongobob 3y ago
  And I hate to make blanket statements about generational stuff, but the incoming teenage generation grew up with social media and covid. These kids are extremely sheltered from my experience. I've got two neighbor kids that I talk to once in a while who are 10 and 12. They're squishy fat babies with 0 social skills and throw tantrums when they don't have their iPads. I invite them and their mom over when I have fires. They play games on their phones and can't make eye contact with me or have a conversation. I've lived across the street from a park for two years now and haven't seen any kids there ever. Not once. This is all very hand wavey but I'm worried about this new digital generation. I'm now the person I never thought I'd be saying this, but these kids are soft.
  - ttfkam 3y ago
    Grew up with social media and Covid. So… they grew up seeing their friends turned inside out from social pressures we never had to deal with and in the meantime they watched their grandparents and other members of older generations die of a disease prematurely while being physically isolated for an extended period of their formative years. In the meantime when back in class, they get periodic drills simulating someone trying to kill them, their friends, and their teachers en masse. "Soft" is not how I'd describe that experience.

refurb 3y ago

Allowing a 17 year old to work the night shift is a "crusade against childhood innocence"?