6 ms·

Kia EV9 Charging Is Held Back by the Tesla Supercharging Network

16 points by peutetre 3y ago

iamxsor 3y ago
[flagged]
edgineer 3y ago
Summary: it could reach 350kW, but gets 84kW with V3 superchargers using 400V.
- NewJazz 3y ago
  As a Bolt owner, I'd be thrilled to get 90 kW lol.
fkarg 3y ago
so basically blaming slow charging of a KIA EV on Tesla for building out the wrong type of charging network? got it
- peutetre 3y ago
  No, correctly blaming Tesla chargers for being low voltage. Here's another example with a Kia EV6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJ2KtzMeh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJ2KtzMeh8 Telsa's chargers don't work well with 800 volt cars. It would be better if they supported higher voltages like other CCS chargers do.
  - NewJazz 3y ago
    When Tesla was building out their network, 800V cars were not common. Even now most EVs out there are Teslas or other 400V vehicles. And Tesla is building out 800V chargers soon, and they'll probably move all their vehicles to 800V as well. What more can we expect from them?
    - peutetre 3y ago
      We can expect better chargers with higher voltages, longer cables, standard plugs, standard protocol, all EV brand support, and contactless, no app payment. The V4 is a step in the right direction and is nearly there except for the voltage problem: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yflZN0dLT8s https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yflZN0dLT8s Tesla must try harder. Kempower and Alpitronic both build better chargers than Tesla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR2M5W6saAk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR2M5W6saAk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4ZWN_-a2j4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4ZWN_-a2j4
      - panick21_ 3y ago
        Tesla 'must' do nothing. They do what is correct for them. Building 'better' chargers isn't hard. Building 10000s of better chargers is hard. There have been a wealth of alternative charger companies for a while, and having an example that works isn't that hard. Tesla however has to scale and deploy those charges in huge volumes. And this is specially true if you want to make stations that have more then a low number of chargers. Because the connection to the local grid becomes a huge problem, and this problem is increased is you move to higher voltage. Tesla moves at the pace of the market, and their own cars. Not at a pace that to enable Hyundai to make as much money as possible without investing themselves. Hyundai should be grateful Tesla opened their charges at all. Because actual 350kW chargers are incredibly rare and broken incredibly often.
        peutetre 3y ago
        > Tesla 'must' do nothing. Of course they must. Better EV infrastructure is required. > Building 'better' chargers isn't hard. Good. Then Tesla can achieve it. They haven't achieved Alpitronic's or Kempower's level yet but if Tesla works at it they'll get there. > Because actual 350kW chargers are incredibly rare and broken incredibly often. There are a lot of them in Europe. 400 kW chargers are being deployed these days.
        panick21_ 3y ago
kccqzy 3y ago
This is already known to owners of the older Kia EV6, as well as other eGMP cars. Nothing new here.
- NewJazz 3y ago
  Yep, and it even affects Cybertrucks to a certain degree (although they seem to have better 400V compatibility). I'm curious why Hyundai used such a low capacity DC-DC converter... Maybe they didn't expect Tesla to open their network? Wonder if they'll revise the convertor component for newer models (e.g. NACS port stuff in 2026) or just ask their customers to use EA and V4 superchargers. I expect they'll at least try to make the experience better.
  - kccqzy 3y ago
    They definitely didn't expect Tesla to open their network. Also there isn't a dedicated converter: the rear motor is used as the DC-DC converter. They might be limited by the motor itself.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    Tesla uses a series/parallel battery pack in the cyber truck. It can switch modes between 400v and 800v. Very few other car manufacturers do that. Anyone else who doesn't needs a very expensive boost converter if they want to charge fast.
    - kccqzy 3y ago
      > very few Indeed very few. I believe the Porsche Macan can do it, and also the monstrous Hummer EV. That's all three I know.
w0z_ 3y ago
"The eventual launch of V4 Superchargers should enable 800V charging at speeds up to 350 kW. But your guess is as good as ours as to when we will see these units at our local Superchargers." Damn, sounds like Kia should uh... build a charging network then. lol.
- NewJazz 3y ago
  Even Rivian has a network these days. I'm pretty sure it supports 800V vehicles, incidentally.
  - panick21_ 3y ago
    Sure I have 'a network' at home too. So I am exactly like Google in that regard. We both have 'a network'. Very comparable.
    - NewJazz 3y ago
      what? Can you do 100G, let alone 400G? Then how does this metaphor transfer? The fact is if you pull up to a Rivian charger you can charge at equivalent or better speeds than EA or Tesla, respectively. The small number of sites is of irrelevance to you if there is a location midway between two nearby metros, for example.
      - panick21_ 3y ago
        > if there is a location midway between two nearby metros, for example. And what is the probability of that ...
- Rebelgecko 3y ago
  I think their first stations are supposed to come online this summer, although most EA stations around me can already handle 350kW charging
- m463 3y ago
  No, tesla should take their 50,000 superchargers offline until they can upgrade and end this tragedy. seriously though, even charging a tesla, their superchargers have always had "tiers", with the plentiful superchargers (like 20+ stalls) at malls usually 75kw, and the faster ones between cities being 150kw or newer ones 250kw. You just pick the charger that fits your needs and drive there.

16 points by peutetre 3y ago

iamxsor 3y ago

[flagged]

edgineer 3y ago

Summary: it could reach 350kW, but gets 84kW with V3 superchargers using 400V.

NewJazz 3y ago
As a Bolt owner, I'd be thrilled to get 90 kW lol.

fkarg 3y ago

so basically blaming slow charging of a KIA EV on Tesla for building out the wrong type of charging network? got it

peutetre 3y ago
No, correctly blaming Tesla chargers for being low voltage. Here's another example with a Kia EV6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJ2KtzMeh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJ2KtzMeh8 Telsa's chargers don't work well with 800 volt cars. It would be better if they supported higher voltages like other CCS chargers do.
- NewJazz 3y ago
  When Tesla was building out their network, 800V cars were not common. Even now most EVs out there are Teslas or other 400V vehicles. And Tesla is building out 800V chargers soon, and they'll probably move all their vehicles to 800V as well. What more can we expect from them?
  - peutetre 3y ago
    We can expect better chargers with higher voltages, longer cables, standard plugs, standard protocol, all EV brand support, and contactless, no app payment. The V4 is a step in the right direction and is nearly there except for the voltage problem: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yflZN0dLT8s https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yflZN0dLT8s Tesla must try harder. Kempower and Alpitronic both build better chargers than Tesla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR2M5W6saAk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR2M5W6saAk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4ZWN_-a2j4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4ZWN_-a2j4
    - panick21_ 3y ago
      Tesla 'must' do nothing. They do what is correct for them. Building 'better' chargers isn't hard. Building 10000s of better chargers is hard. There have been a wealth of alternative charger companies for a while, and having an example that works isn't that hard. Tesla however has to scale and deploy those charges in huge volumes. And this is specially true if you want to make stations that have more then a low number of chargers. Because the connection to the local grid becomes a huge problem, and this problem is increased is you move to higher voltage. Tesla moves at the pace of the market, and their own cars. Not at a pace that to enable Hyundai to make as much money as possible without investing themselves. Hyundai should be grateful Tesla opened their charges at all. Because actual 350kW chargers are incredibly rare and broken incredibly often.
      - peutetre 3y ago
        > Tesla 'must' do nothing. Of course they must. Better EV infrastructure is required. > Building 'better' chargers isn't hard. Good. Then Tesla can achieve it. They haven't achieved Alpitronic's or Kempower's level yet but if Tesla works at it they'll get there. > Because actual 350kW chargers are incredibly rare and broken incredibly often. There are a lot of them in Europe. 400 kW chargers are being deployed these days.
        panick21_ 3y ago

kccqzy 3y ago

This is already known to owners of the older Kia EV6, as well as other eGMP cars. Nothing new here.

NewJazz 3y ago
Yep, and it even affects Cybertrucks to a certain degree (although they seem to have better 400V compatibility). I'm curious why Hyundai used such a low capacity DC-DC converter... Maybe they didn't expect Tesla to open their network? Wonder if they'll revise the convertor component for newer models (e.g. NACS port stuff in 2026) or just ask their customers to use EA and V4 superchargers. I expect they'll at least try to make the experience better.
- kccqzy 3y ago
  They definitely didn't expect Tesla to open their network. Also there isn't a dedicated converter: the rear motor is used as the DC-DC converter. They might be limited by the motor itself.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  Tesla uses a series/parallel battery pack in the cyber truck. It can switch modes between 400v and 800v. Very few other car manufacturers do that. Anyone else who doesn't needs a very expensive boost converter if they want to charge fast.
  - kccqzy 3y ago
    > very few Indeed very few. I believe the Porsche Macan can do it, and also the monstrous Hummer EV. That's all three I know.

w0z_ 3y ago

"The eventual launch of V4 Superchargers should enable 800V charging at speeds up to 350 kW. But your guess is as good as ours as to when we will see these units at our local Superchargers." Damn, sounds like Kia should uh... build a charging network then. lol.

NewJazz 3y ago
Even Rivian has a network these days. I'm pretty sure it supports 800V vehicles, incidentally.
- panick21_ 3y ago
  Sure I have 'a network' at home too. So I am exactly like Google in that regard. We both have 'a network'. Very comparable.
  - NewJazz 3y ago
    what? Can you do 100G, let alone 400G? Then how does this metaphor transfer? The fact is if you pull up to a Rivian charger you can charge at equivalent or better speeds than EA or Tesla, respectively. The small number of sites is of irrelevance to you if there is a location midway between two nearby metros, for example.
    - panick21_ 3y ago
      > if there is a location midway between two nearby metros, for example. And what is the probability of that ...
Rebelgecko 3y ago
I think their first stations are supposed to come online this summer, although most EA stations around me can already handle 350kW charging
m463 3y ago
No, tesla should take their 50,000 superchargers offline until they can upgrade and end this tragedy. seriously though, even charging a tesla, their superchargers have always had "tiers", with the plentiful superchargers (like 20+ stalls) at malls usually 75kw, and the faster ones between cities being 150kw or newer ones 250kw. You just pick the charger that fits your needs and drive there.