4 ms·

Ok, but if there's no reason? Or what do you do when the reason is something somewhat objective like "performance" because you didn't meet your deadlines or so

Ok, but if there's no reason? Or what do you do when the reason is something somewhat objective like "performance" because you didn't meet your deadlines or something. Can you claim discrimination then? Otherwise what's stopping everyone from claiming discrimination every time they get laid off?

lolinder 3y ago
> Ok, but what do you do when the reason is something somewhat objective like "performance" because you didn't meet your deadlines or something. Can you claim discrimination then? Usually if that's the reason the company will go to great pains to document it and fire you properly, for cause. This is where PIPs (performance improvement plans) come in—they document the specific areas where performance is lacking, set specific targets for improvement, show that those targets were not met in the time allotted, and then fire you. If a company doesn't do that then yeah, they're leaving themselves open to a discrimination suit. It doesn't usually happen because lawsuits are expensive and unemployed people tend to not have the resources to fight back, but larger companies will usually take pains to be sure they're covered.
whimsicalism 3y ago
> Ok, but if there's no reason? If there is no reason, why were you fired? You can easily google/ask chatgpt the answer to your questions - the answer is that some companies are nowadays very risk averse in laying people off precisely because they are afraid of discrimination lawsuits, which is why they generally have very solid documentation of performance problems (hence the reason for the modern Performance Improvement Plan as a papertrail)
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  >If there is no reason, why were you fired? Behause they can? To cover their ass? I duuno. I'm asking since I live in an EU country where you can get laid off for no reason and employers usually provide no exact reason in writing precisely to potentially avoid getting sued. They just terminate your contract and let you know they terminate your contract by giving you your notice and that's that, you're gone in 30-90 days, no need to provide an explanation as to why they decided to terminate you since they're not required by law. So I'm asking to know how it's like in the US if it's like here. If employers aren't required by law to provide termination reason, why would they?
  - tpmoney 3y ago
    The reason I was always told was that terminating an employee for cause is the only way not to take a hit to your unemployment insurance if they file for unemployment. So if they have any "good" reason for firing you, it's in their best interests to provide that reason.
  - gambiting 3y ago
    >>I'm asking since I live in an EU country where you can get laid off for no reason and employers usually provide no exact reason in writing precisely to potentially avoid getting sued. What EU country is that?
    - Rinzler89 3y ago
      >What EU country is that? Austria.
      - wkat4242 3y ago
        Wow weird. I've been there and l thought it was a really socialist country. Especially because the housing in Vienna seems very well regulated to avoid extreme prices. But I didn't really discuss this topic with the coworkers I visited so clearly I was wrong :(
        Rinzler89 3y ago
        Oh it's socialist all right when it comes to taxing everything that moves to pay for pensions and welfare. It's not socialist when it comes to employment laws and protections, there it's a capitalist paradise. In most non unionized business it's at will employment.
        wkat4242 3y ago
        Wow, I had no idea we even had at will employment anywhere in Europe! Like here in Spain if I'd get fired I would get a redundancy package for sure. And of course France has even better protections (we're all jealous of their 2 months holidays of course :P ). I'm not sure if we're unionised though. Thanks for letting me know. I was not really considering it as a place to live but I won't now - especially as I'm getting older.
otoburb 3y ago
>>Otherwise what's stopping everyone from claiming discrimination every time they get laid off? You can claim discrimination, but then you'll need somebody (usually an attorney you hire) to file a lawsuit against the company. I'm not a lawyer, but I believe you'll also need to cite a specific type of discrimination for your case to have standing.

lolinder 3y ago

> Ok, but what do you do when the reason is something somewhat objective like "performance" because you didn't meet your deadlines or something. Can you claim discrimination then? Usually if that's the reason the company will go to great pains to document it and fire you properly, for cause. This is where PIPs (performance improvement plans) come in—they document the specific areas where performance is lacking, set specific targets for improvement, show that those targets were not met in the time allotted, and then fire you. If a company doesn't do that then yeah, they're leaving themselves open to a discrimination suit. It doesn't usually happen because lawsuits are expensive and unemployed people tend to not have the resources to fight back, but larger companies will usually take pains to be sure they're covered.

whimsicalism 3y ago

> Ok, but if there's no reason? If there is no reason, why were you fired? You can easily google/ask chatgpt the answer to your questions - the answer is that some companies are nowadays very risk averse in laying people off precisely because they are afraid of discrimination lawsuits, which is why they generally have very solid documentation of performance problems (hence the reason for the modern Performance Improvement Plan as a papertrail)

Rinzler89 3y ago
>If there is no reason, why were you fired? Behause they can? To cover their ass? I duuno. I'm asking since I live in an EU country where you can get laid off for no reason and employers usually provide no exact reason in writing precisely to potentially avoid getting sued. They just terminate your contract and let you know they terminate your contract by giving you your notice and that's that, you're gone in 30-90 days, no need to provide an explanation as to why they decided to terminate you since they're not required by law. So I'm asking to know how it's like in the US if it's like here. If employers aren't required by law to provide termination reason, why would they?
- tpmoney 3y ago
  The reason I was always told was that terminating an employee for cause is the only way not to take a hit to your unemployment insurance if they file for unemployment. So if they have any "good" reason for firing you, it's in their best interests to provide that reason.
- gambiting 3y ago
  >>I'm asking since I live in an EU country where you can get laid off for no reason and employers usually provide no exact reason in writing precisely to potentially avoid getting sued. What EU country is that?
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    >What EU country is that? Austria.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      Wow weird. I've been there and l thought it was a really socialist country. Especially because the housing in Vienna seems very well regulated to avoid extreme prices. But I didn't really discuss this topic with the coworkers I visited so clearly I was wrong :(
      - Rinzler89 3y ago
        Oh it's socialist all right when it comes to taxing everything that moves to pay for pensions and welfare. It's not socialist when it comes to employment laws and protections, there it's a capitalist paradise. In most non unionized business it's at will employment.
        wkat4242 3y ago
        Wow, I had no idea we even had at will employment anywhere in Europe! Like here in Spain if I'd get fired I would get a redundancy package for sure. And of course France has even better protections (we're all jealous of their 2 months holidays of course :P ). I'm not sure if we're unionised though. Thanks for letting me know. I was not really considering it as a place to live but I won't now - especially as I'm getting older.

otoburb 3y ago

>>Otherwise what's stopping everyone from claiming discrimination every time they get laid off? You can claim discrimination, but then you'll need somebody (usually an attorney you hire) to file a lawsuit against the company. I'm not a lawyer, but I believe you'll also need to cite a specific type of discrimination for your case to have standing.