5 ms·

The incredible effectiveness of airline regulation shouldn't be understated. Despite being a criminally negligent organization, Boeing still failed to kill any

by smt88 3y ago

The incredible effectiveness of airline regulation shouldn't be understated. Despite being a criminally negligent organization, Boeing still failed to kill anyone because of the FAA (their direct action and also airlines' fear of consequences).

fourseventy 3y ago
Except for the two Boeing planes that nose dived into the ground killing everyone onboard...
- sccxy 3y ago
  In 2023?
  - denotational 3y ago
    The original claim wasn’t qualified with a year: > Despite being a criminally negligent organization, Boeing still failed to kill anyone because of the FAA Adopting the assumptions of the original comment, Boeing have managed to kill people despite the FAA, although as you point out it wasn’t in 2023.
lxgr 3y ago
In the US. And you're actually raising a good point here: Only US citizens get to vote on the US federal government, which controls FAA, yet many countries indirectly rely on the FAA as the primary regulator for Boeing, as far as I understand. Maybe the regulators of a few large industrial nations or the EU have the size/staffing/funding and leverage necessary to make a difference (and that's still a few steps removed from the FAA!). Others (Ethiopa and Indonesia come to mind) are effectively at the mercy of the FAA.
- SteveNuts 3y ago
  > And you're actually raising a good point here: Only US citizens get to vote on the US federal government, which controls FAA, yet many countries indirectly rely on the FAA as the primary regulator for Boeing Except for when Boeing is allowed to regulate itself
  - lxgr 3y ago
    And who allowed that? The FAA can outsource the implementation, but not the responsibility.
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      Just as other sovereign nations can decide to accept [or not] the regulations as promulgated by the FAA.
- freedomben 3y ago
  when talking about the scale of the US federal government, I don't think average (non-wealthy, non-politically connected) US citizens have any more say than anybody else in the world. I would bet wealthy citizens of other countries have a lot more ability to affect the US federal government than average citizens. A tiny, statistically non-existent vote is entirely meaningless. Basically just symbolic of democratic ideals.
constantcrying 3y ago
>Boeing still failed to kill anyone By sheer luck. Loosing a door mid flight could have ended very differently.
photochemsyn 3y ago
Isn't it the case that Boeing inspectors used to report to the FAA, and now they report to Boeing managers, so Boeing can have them fired if they raise too many red flags? This was due to legislation passed in 2004 IIRC, here's an overview: https://www.5clpp.com/?p=4026 https://www.5clpp.com/?p=4026
cooper_ganglia 3y ago
Boeing failed to kill anyone sitting in one of their planes. If you counted whistleblowers sitting in their truck in a hotel parking lot, this number increases to 1.

by smt88 3y ago

fourseventy 3y ago

Except for the two Boeing planes that nose dived into the ground killing everyone onboard...

sccxy 3y ago
In 2023?
- denotational 3y ago
  The original claim wasn’t qualified with a year: > Despite being a criminally negligent organization, Boeing still failed to kill anyone because of the FAA Adopting the assumptions of the original comment, Boeing have managed to kill people despite the FAA, although as you point out it wasn’t in 2023.

lxgr 3y ago

In the US. And you're actually raising a good point here: Only US citizens get to vote on the US federal government, which controls FAA, yet many countries indirectly rely on the FAA as the primary regulator for Boeing, as far as I understand. Maybe the regulators of a few large industrial nations or the EU have the size/staffing/funding and leverage necessary to make a difference (and that's still a few steps removed from the FAA!). Others (Ethiopa and Indonesia come to mind) are effectively at the mercy of the FAA.

SteveNuts 3y ago
> And you're actually raising a good point here: Only US citizens get to vote on the US federal government, which controls FAA, yet many countries indirectly rely on the FAA as the primary regulator for Boeing Except for when Boeing is allowed to regulate itself
- lxgr 3y ago
  And who allowed that? The FAA can outsource the implementation, but not the responsibility.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    Just as other sovereign nations can decide to accept [or not] the regulations as promulgated by the FAA.
freedomben 3y ago
when talking about the scale of the US federal government, I don't think average (non-wealthy, non-politically connected) US citizens have any more say than anybody else in the world. I would bet wealthy citizens of other countries have a lot more ability to affect the US federal government than average citizens. A tiny, statistically non-existent vote is entirely meaningless. Basically just symbolic of democratic ideals.

constantcrying 3y ago

>Boeing still failed to kill anyone By sheer luck. Loosing a door mid flight could have ended very differently.

photochemsyn 3y ago

Isn't it the case that Boeing inspectors used to report to the FAA, and now they report to Boeing managers, so Boeing can have them fired if they raise too many red flags? This was due to legislation passed in 2004 IIRC, here's an overview: https://www.5clpp.com/?p=4026 https://www.5clpp.com/?p=4026

cooper_ganglia 3y ago

Boeing failed to kill anyone sitting in one of their planes. If you counted whistleblowers sitting in their truck in a hotel parking lot, this number increases to 1.