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Is it true that Chinese EV's are not sold in the US? If so, it might not be so obvious to US readers that the Chinese strategy of using the shift to EV's to ag

by tmnvix 3y ago

Is it true that Chinese EV's are not sold in the US? If so, it might not be so obvious to US readers that the Chinese strategy of using the shift to EV's to aggressively chase market share seems to be paying off. In NZ these BYD vehicles are everywhere. The car sharing business in my city seems to be replacing their entire fleet with them.

em500 3y ago
Yes, the US and Europe have their domestic car industries to protect. Most of the other continents/countries don't, so they typically have few qualms substituting their traditional American/European/Japanese/Korean imports with Chinese imports.
- resolutebat 3y ago
  Chinese cars are widely available in Europe and BYD in particular is becoming ubiquitous.
  - jorvi 3y ago
    Not really. I haven’t seen a single BYD car ever. Or Xpeng, or Geely (not Polestar / Volvo). I wish they’d actually become ubiquitous so EVs come within reach for the lower economic rungs of society.
    - ZeroGravitas 3y ago
      Geely also make the London cabs via their London Electric Vehicle Company (LEVC) subsidiary.
  - moogly 3y ago
    Maybe some parts of Europe. Not clear to me which. In Scandinavia (forefront of EV adoption), BYD isn't doing super hot yet. Probably best in Norway. They only sold 15k in Europe total during 2023[1]. 3.5k of those were a very attractive price-dumped/heavily subsidized leasing deal in Sweden of the Atto 3. That's dealer registrations though; it is not clear to me how many of those are actually out on the road. [1]: https://electrek.co/2024/03/12/byd-triple-ev-market-share-europe/ https://electrek.co/2024/03/12/byd-triple-ev-market-share-eu...
  - esskay 3y ago
    Where in Europe are BYD ubiquitous? I can safely say I've never, ever seen a BYD on the road in Europe.
    - buggeryorkshire 3y ago
      No idea about BYD, but MG are all over, especially among the older crowd who remember them being built (badly) in Birmingham.
  - em500 3y ago
    In 2023 BYD barely sold 16k cars in Western Europe, that's very very far from "ubiquitous".
  - colinb 3y ago
    it ain't ubiquity, but there are BYDs on the streets of Dublin. And very nice they look too. There are also plenty of MGs.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  When technicals go electric we'll know the EV revolution has arrived in force. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_(vehicle) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_(vehicle)
jillesvangurp 3y ago
Only a few. Polestar is technically Chinese (Geely owned, they bought out partner Volvo recently) but they wouldn't have a huge market share. There are probably a few others. BYD is building factories in Mexico, so there may be some imports from there in the next few years. Otherwise, the US has 25% import tariff on foreign cars and incentives for domestically produced cars. So, that's a huge price advantage for what are otherwise not very competitive American vehicles at this point. The export market for those is shrinking rapidly. There's a bit of a niche market for pointlessly large trucks in Europe. But it's tiny and they just aren't very practical or economical there. Things like F-150s, Rivian, Rams, etc. are extremely uncommon over here. Rivian might grow internationally with their new, smaller models. But otherwise, it's mostly Tesla, not a whole lot of Ford (their market share has vanished rapidly in the last years), and not much else succeeding abroad. By the time Chinese manufacturers open (or more likely take over) factories in the US, they will already have a huge market share elsewhere. There's going to be no shortage of struggling US manufacturers looking for an acquisition in a few years. That's what happened to Chrysler after they went bankrupt. It's also a bit of a repeat of what happened with Japanese cars in the eighties.
- AnotherGoodName 3y ago
  Even Tesla is pretty much a Chinese made car outside of Europe and the USA markets nowadays. eg. They pretty much stopped importing USA made Tesla's into Australia now that their China factory has ramped up for example. So one of your two 'not China' examples is actually China.
  - Strom 3y ago
    By that logic the Toyotas and Volkswagens sold in the US are American cars. Or the iPhone is a Chinese phone. While the place of manufacturing is interesting, it's not what people usually mean when they talk about the author's origin.
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      If anything, declaring location of manufacture by the location of the corporate headquarters rather than the factory obfuscates very valuable information, arguably to the point of misleading marketing. There is value in easily learning that the majority of Toyotas sold in the US are American cars, that almost all computers (desktops, laptops, smartphones, tablets) are Chinese or Taiwanese, and so on.
nixass 3y ago
In Germany car sharing services are going away from EV. Expensive and inconvenient experiment that isn't ready to be rolled out yet
- piva00 3y ago
  In Sweden it's been doubled down but charging infrastructure is pretty ok, not sure the state in Germany but given the slowness of Germany on adopting new technology I'd guess it's dire. Pretty strange if such a densely populated place can't rollout decent and convenient charging stations.
- esskay 3y ago
  EV sales in the UK have dropped a fair bit too. We've not got the charging infrastructure, and wont for a long time.
  - thebruce87m 3y ago
    Everything I read says 2023 was a record year for EV sales in the UK. What is your source for “dropped a fair bit”? > New BEV sales (by registrations) increased by 17.7% in 2023, compared with the previous year. https://www.webuyanycar.com/about-us/press-centre/ev-statistics/#:~:text=EV%20market%20highlights%20from%202023&text=2023%20was%20a%20record%20year,petrol%20models%20in%20the%20UK https://www.webuyanycar.com/about-us/press-centre/ev-statist.... And this year: > New AutoMotive says that 18% of all new cars sold in February were electric, according to analysis of separate data from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA). > It suggests that more than 14,000 electric vehicles (EVs) were purchased in the UK in the second month of 2024. Year-on-year EV sales grew by 28% in February. https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/one-in-six-new-cars-pure-electric-as-fleets-sales-rise-27-year-on-year https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/one-in-six-new-cars-pure-el...
  - byefruit 3y ago
    In relative terms (of new cars sold) they're down around 1%. That isn't good when share needs to be increasing. Policy support for EV adoption has been woefully poor and inconsistent (you could generally say this about most things from the government at the moment...). It's hard to make investment decisions around EV infrastructure when the government keeps changing their plans every leader.
AnotherGoodName 3y ago
Yes BYDs and Chinese made Tesla's etc. aren't really in the USA. I live in the USA but am in Australia right now where Chinese made electric cars (including the Chinese built Teslas) are the only electric cars you can buy. BYD is becoming a common brand and Tesla is 100% Chinese made here. I think people in the US and the Euro nations are in for a shock once they realize China has completely stolen the market and effectively their brands in third party nations.
- alliao 3y ago
  I'm gonna steal this one, instead of third world we're now third party nations
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    The term "third world" did originally mean "third party" nations, as in nations not aligned with the West or the communist/socialist block, but over time it somehow became associated only with impoverished nations which were also the third party nations during the cold war.
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  >I think people in the US and the Euro nations are in for a shock The US buried its auto industry a long time ago and isn't a big slice of their economy anymore, as they have services, banking and tech as the big drivers of their economy, but for some EU countries, especially Germany and central-eastern Europe where the Automotive industry provides a lot of middle class jobs, it will be a bloodbath. I used to work in the German automotive scene about a decade ago and left, but when I talk to my mates still active in the industry the news they get from management is grim. At a town hall meeting (major German OEM) they were recently told due to increased pressure from Chinese competition they'll have to deliver projects "quicker and cheaper than before", whatever that means, since they told me there's no way it can be done faster and cheaper, as for a new project they spent 2 months just to deiced which version control they should use as the younger devs wanted to use git while the older devs close to retirement wanted to stick to clearcase. I expect the EU will introduce hefty tariffs on Chinese EVs when the local automakers will lobby for it to protect local jobs, but hardcore protectionism long term only ensure your domestic industry lags behind technologically and falls behind globally. Luxury brands like Bentley, Porsche, Lambo, etc will be fine, but the ones for Average Joe will have a rough time competing.
switch007 3y ago
I've seen a few MG EVs in the UK; they seem to get pretty decent reviews. Only ~6.5% EV share in 2023 though. (MG is SAIC Motor, which is Chinese and state-owned)
HDThoreaun 3y ago
US has massive tariffs on imported cars outside of nafta countries. The chinese companies are working on getting mexican factories up and running, I assume that we'll see a big influx of cheap chinese EVs soon enough.

by tmnvix 3y ago

em500 3y ago

Yes, the US and Europe have their domestic car industries to protect. Most of the other continents/countries don't, so they typically have few qualms substituting their traditional American/European/Japanese/Korean imports with Chinese imports.

resolutebat 3y ago
Chinese cars are widely available in Europe and BYD in particular is becoming ubiquitous.
- jorvi 3y ago
  Not really. I haven’t seen a single BYD car ever. Or Xpeng, or Geely (not Polestar / Volvo). I wish they’d actually become ubiquitous so EVs come within reach for the lower economic rungs of society.
  - ZeroGravitas 3y ago
    Geely also make the London cabs via their London Electric Vehicle Company (LEVC) subsidiary.
- moogly 3y ago
  Maybe some parts of Europe. Not clear to me which. In Scandinavia (forefront of EV adoption), BYD isn't doing super hot yet. Probably best in Norway. They only sold 15k in Europe total during 2023[1]. 3.5k of those were a very attractive price-dumped/heavily subsidized leasing deal in Sweden of the Atto 3. That's dealer registrations though; it is not clear to me how many of those are actually out on the road. [1]: https://electrek.co/2024/03/12/byd-triple-ev-market-share-europe/ https://electrek.co/2024/03/12/byd-triple-ev-market-share-eu...
- esskay 3y ago
  Where in Europe are BYD ubiquitous? I can safely say I've never, ever seen a BYD on the road in Europe.
  - buggeryorkshire 3y ago
    No idea about BYD, but MG are all over, especially among the older crowd who remember them being built (badly) in Birmingham.
- em500 3y ago
  In 2023 BYD barely sold 16k cars in Western Europe, that's very very far from "ubiquitous".
- colinb 3y ago
  it ain't ubiquity, but there are BYDs on the streets of Dublin. And very nice they look too. There are also plenty of MGs.
082349872349872 3y ago
When technicals go electric we'll know the EV revolution has arrived in force. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_(vehicle) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_(vehicle)

jillesvangurp 3y ago

Only a few. Polestar is technically Chinese (Geely owned, they bought out partner Volvo recently) but they wouldn't have a huge market share. There are probably a few others. BYD is building factories in Mexico, so there may be some imports from there in the next few years. Otherwise, the US has 25% import tariff on foreign cars and incentives for domestically produced cars. So, that's a huge price advantage for what are otherwise not very competitive American vehicles at this point. The export market for those is shrinking rapidly. There's a bit of a niche market for pointlessly large trucks in Europe. But it's tiny and they just aren't very practical or economical there. Things like F-150s, Rivian, Rams, etc. are extremely uncommon over here. Rivian might grow internationally with their new, smaller models. But otherwise, it's mostly Tesla, not a whole lot of Ford (their market share has vanished rapidly in the last years), and not much else succeeding abroad. By the time Chinese manufacturers open (or more likely take over) factories in the US, they will already have a huge market share elsewhere. There's going to be no shortage of struggling US manufacturers looking for an acquisition in a few years. That's what happened to Chrysler after they went bankrupt. It's also a bit of a repeat of what happened with Japanese cars in the eighties.

AnotherGoodName 3y ago
Even Tesla is pretty much a Chinese made car outside of Europe and the USA markets nowadays. eg. They pretty much stopped importing USA made Tesla's into Australia now that their China factory has ramped up for example. So one of your two 'not China' examples is actually China.
- Strom 3y ago
  By that logic the Toyotas and Volkswagens sold in the US are American cars. Or the iPhone is a Chinese phone. While the place of manufacturing is interesting, it's not what people usually mean when they talk about the author's origin.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    If anything, declaring location of manufacture by the location of the corporate headquarters rather than the factory obfuscates very valuable information, arguably to the point of misleading marketing. There is value in easily learning that the majority of Toyotas sold in the US are American cars, that almost all computers (desktops, laptops, smartphones, tablets) are Chinese or Taiwanese, and so on.

nixass 3y ago

In Germany car sharing services are going away from EV. Expensive and inconvenient experiment that isn't ready to be rolled out yet

piva00 3y ago
In Sweden it's been doubled down but charging infrastructure is pretty ok, not sure the state in Germany but given the slowness of Germany on adopting new technology I'd guess it's dire. Pretty strange if such a densely populated place can't rollout decent and convenient charging stations.
esskay 3y ago
EV sales in the UK have dropped a fair bit too. We've not got the charging infrastructure, and wont for a long time.
- thebruce87m 3y ago
  Everything I read says 2023 was a record year for EV sales in the UK. What is your source for “dropped a fair bit”? > New BEV sales (by registrations) increased by 17.7% in 2023, compared with the previous year. https://www.webuyanycar.com/about-us/press-centre/ev-statistics/#:~:text=EV%20market%20highlights%20from%202023&text=2023%20was%20a%20record%20year,petrol%20models%20in%20the%20UK https://www.webuyanycar.com/about-us/press-centre/ev-statist.... And this year: > New AutoMotive says that 18% of all new cars sold in February were electric, according to analysis of separate data from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA). > It suggests that more than 14,000 electric vehicles (EVs) were purchased in the UK in the second month of 2024. Year-on-year EV sales grew by 28% in February. https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/one-in-six-new-cars-pure-electric-as-fleets-sales-rise-27-year-on-year https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/one-in-six-new-cars-pure-el...
- byefruit 3y ago
  In relative terms (of new cars sold) they're down around 1%. That isn't good when share needs to be increasing. Policy support for EV adoption has been woefully poor and inconsistent (you could generally say this about most things from the government at the moment...). It's hard to make investment decisions around EV infrastructure when the government keeps changing their plans every leader.

AnotherGoodName 3y ago

Yes BYDs and Chinese made Tesla's etc. aren't really in the USA. I live in the USA but am in Australia right now where Chinese made electric cars (including the Chinese built Teslas) are the only electric cars you can buy. BYD is becoming a common brand and Tesla is 100% Chinese made here. I think people in the US and the Euro nations are in for a shock once they realize China has completely stolen the market and effectively their brands in third party nations.

alliao 3y ago
I'm gonna steal this one, instead of third world we're now third party nations
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  The term "third world" did originally mean "third party" nations, as in nations not aligned with the West or the communist/socialist block, but over time it somehow became associated only with impoverished nations which were also the third party nations during the cold war.
Rinzler89 3y ago
>I think people in the US and the Euro nations are in for a shock The US buried its auto industry a long time ago and isn't a big slice of their economy anymore, as they have services, banking and tech as the big drivers of their economy, but for some EU countries, especially Germany and central-eastern Europe where the Automotive industry provides a lot of middle class jobs, it will be a bloodbath. I used to work in the German automotive scene about a decade ago and left, but when I talk to my mates still active in the industry the news they get from management is grim. At a town hall meeting (major German OEM) they were recently told due to increased pressure from Chinese competition they'll have to deliver projects "quicker and cheaper than before", whatever that means, since they told me there's no way it can be done faster and cheaper, as for a new project they spent 2 months just to deiced which version control they should use as the younger devs wanted to use git while the older devs close to retirement wanted to stick to clearcase. I expect the EU will introduce hefty tariffs on Chinese EVs when the local automakers will lobby for it to protect local jobs, but hardcore protectionism long term only ensure your domestic industry lags behind technologically and falls behind globally. Luxury brands like Bentley, Porsche, Lambo, etc will be fine, but the ones for Average Joe will have a rough time competing.

switch007 3y ago

I've seen a few MG EVs in the UK; they seem to get pretty decent reviews. Only ~6.5% EV share in 2023 though. (MG is SAIC Motor, which is Chinese and state-owned)

HDThoreaun 3y ago

US has massive tariffs on imported cars outside of nafta countries. The chinese companies are working on getting mexican factories up and running, I assume that we'll see a big influx of cheap chinese EVs soon enough.