3 ms·

Which service do you use? Mullvad?

defrost 3y ago
That could be either Mullvad or ProtonVPN. Both are Swiss zero log, Mullvad has a flat 5 euro/month charge that goes back to when they started to (they say) forever - you can send them cash in envolope for the next twenty years with a generated account number and you're away. ProtonVPN has plans - the two year streaming sign up is 4.99 euro/month.
- xvector 3y ago
  Ah, good 'ole trustworthy Swiss companies! Like Crypto AG![1] Realistically, all VPNs are compromised. But for most people's threat model, that's irrelevant anyways. Proton for instance revealed the location of a climate activist leading to his arrest[2], with the inspiring message from the CEO that "privacy protections can be suspended", silently on a per-user basis at any time. Haven't seen anything like that for Mullvad, but it's probably the same. At least the company takes crypto. But these things are always just surface level obscurity at best. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG [2]: https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-address-of-french-activist-after-order-by-swiss-authorities/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-addre...
  - andsoitis 3y ago
    > Proton for instance revealed the location of a climate activist leading to his arrest[2], with the inspiring message from the CEO that "privacy protections can be suspended", silently on a per-user basis at any time. That person isn't just a climate activist, they (and others who used that email account) broke French laws. Swiss authorities compelled the disclosure.
    - xvector 3y ago
      > broke French laws. Swiss authorities compelled the disclosure. That's a terrible reason. Torrenting breaks French law. Having the wrong bread or cheese with your wine probably breaks French law. And if your company can be compelled via gag order to give up your users' privacy whenever the authorities feel like it, well, your product isn't very effective anyways, and you should stop pretending you offer any meaningful level of protection.
      - protonmail 3y ago
        Thankfully, gag orders are not permissible in Switzerland, so the scenario you are describing is impossible.
  - protonmail 3y ago
    The case you shared in fact shows that the Proton's encryption ensures privacy by default and that it cannot be bypassed even when we're presented with a court request that we cannot legally contest. Namely, weren't able to share any of the user's email content due to zero-access encryption which makes it inaccessible to us: https://proton.me/blog/zero-access-encryption https://proton.me/blog/zero-access-encryption. All we could provide was the limited metadata we need to have access to anyway in order for the email service to work properly. Additionally, the user's identity had already been known to the law enforcement. As any legally operating company, we need to comply to the local legislation. There is also no comparison between Crypto AG and us. Our encryption occurs client-side, our cryptographic code is open source ( https://proton.me/community/open-source https://proton.me/community/open-source ), and our tech can and has been independently verified. More about this here: https://proton.me/blog/is-protonmail-trustworthy https://proton.me/blog/is-protonmail-trustworthy Finally, regarding payment in cryptocurrency, you can also pay for Proton's services in Bitcoin: https://proton.me/support/payment-options#bitcoin https://proton.me/support/payment-options#bitcoin.
- byyll 3y ago
  Mullvad is not Swiss, it's Swedish.
  - defrost 3y ago
    Fair point and one that I knew, my bad for typing faster than thought :/
byyll 3y ago
I am not here to advertise, the point is the same for most commercial VPNs.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

That could be either Mullvad or ProtonVPN. Both are Swiss zero log, Mullvad has a flat 5 euro/month charge that goes back to when they started to (they say) forever - you can send them cash in envolope for the next twenty years with a generated account number and you're away. ProtonVPN has plans - the two year streaming sign up is 4.99 euro/month.

xvector 3y ago
Ah, good 'ole trustworthy Swiss companies! Like Crypto AG![1] Realistically, all VPNs are compromised. But for most people's threat model, that's irrelevant anyways. Proton for instance revealed the location of a climate activist leading to his arrest[2], with the inspiring message from the CEO that "privacy protections can be suspended", silently on a per-user basis at any time. Haven't seen anything like that for Mullvad, but it's probably the same. At least the company takes crypto. But these things are always just surface level obscurity at best. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG [2]: https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-address-of-french-activist-after-order-by-swiss-authorities/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-addre...
- andsoitis 3y ago
  > Proton for instance revealed the location of a climate activist leading to his arrest[2], with the inspiring message from the CEO that "privacy protections can be suspended", silently on a per-user basis at any time. That person isn't just a climate activist, they (and others who used that email account) broke French laws. Swiss authorities compelled the disclosure.
  - xvector 3y ago
    > broke French laws. Swiss authorities compelled the disclosure. That's a terrible reason. Torrenting breaks French law. Having the wrong bread or cheese with your wine probably breaks French law. And if your company can be compelled via gag order to give up your users' privacy whenever the authorities feel like it, well, your product isn't very effective anyways, and you should stop pretending you offer any meaningful level of protection.
    - protonmail 3y ago
      Thankfully, gag orders are not permissible in Switzerland, so the scenario you are describing is impossible.
- protonmail 3y ago
  The case you shared in fact shows that the Proton's encryption ensures privacy by default and that it cannot be bypassed even when we're presented with a court request that we cannot legally contest. Namely, weren't able to share any of the user's email content due to zero-access encryption which makes it inaccessible to us: https://proton.me/blog/zero-access-encryption https://proton.me/blog/zero-access-encryption. All we could provide was the limited metadata we need to have access to anyway in order for the email service to work properly. Additionally, the user's identity had already been known to the law enforcement. As any legally operating company, we need to comply to the local legislation. There is also no comparison between Crypto AG and us. Our encryption occurs client-side, our cryptographic code is open source ( https://proton.me/community/open-source https://proton.me/community/open-source ), and our tech can and has been independently verified. More about this here: https://proton.me/blog/is-protonmail-trustworthy https://proton.me/blog/is-protonmail-trustworthy Finally, regarding payment in cryptocurrency, you can also pay for Proton's services in Bitcoin: https://proton.me/support/payment-options#bitcoin https://proton.me/support/payment-options#bitcoin.
byyll 3y ago
Mullvad is not Swiss, it's Swedish.
- defrost 3y ago
  Fair point and one that I knew, my bad for typing faster than thought :/

byyll 3y ago

I am not here to advertise, the point is the same for most commercial VPNs.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]