7 ms·

Wow, enlightened white people. We sure are good at patting ourselves on the back, aren't we? Reality check: in 1962, every American city, north or south, with

by moldbug 14y ago

Wow, enlightened white people. We sure are good at patting ourselves on the back, aren't we? Reality check: in 1962, every American city, north or south, with a substantial black population had a thriving black business district and a commercial middle class. Example: Bronzeville in Chicago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas,_Chicago#Bronzeville http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas,_Chicago#Bronzeville Enlightened white people destroyed these worlds and the people who lived in them. The replacement was this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Taylor_Homes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Taylor_Homes In San Francisco those neighborhoods were Third Street and the Fillmore. Pictures of Third Street from the 1950s show fancy cars, fancy clothes, fancy shops, not a white face in sight. Pictures of Third Street today show someone about to sucker-punch the photographer and steal his camera. In 1962 there were no no-go zones anywhere in America. Today I could walk five miles from my home and be in a place where my life wasn't safe. Black America in 2012: http://tosh.comedycentral.com/video-clips/uncensored---video-breakdown---black-pool-party http://tosh.comedycentral.com/video-clips/uncensored---video... Upside: black people can vote. For the same party, every time. For a black (or, well, half-East-African) president whose campaign office looks as white as a Romney family reunion: http://freebeacon.com/minority-report/ http://freebeacon.com/minority-report/ I think the enlightened people of 1962 might be a little incredulous at all the back-patting going on in 2012. Nice job you've done of uplifting black America, 2012. With successes like this, who needs failures?

jbooth 14y ago
I can't believe this comment. Segregation and poll taxes were no big deal, right? Things were great for black people back when it was enshrined legal doctrine to treat them as a lower category of people. You want to know why black people vote for the same party every time? Because it's the alternative to your party.
- gaius 14y ago
  The world is not that simple. Bush had Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice, who did Bill Clinton have? Al Sharpton?
  - jbooth 14y ago
    Clinton went on Arsenio Hall. He didn't need tokenism. If you want to claim there's no undercurrent of racism in standard Republican messaging, well, I can't prove it to you. Just know that most black people disagree with you. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/22/simpsons-mocks-fox-news-racist_n_786712.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/22/simpsons-mocks-fox-...
    - gaius 14y ago
      I don't know what that means, but the accomplishments of Powell and Rice stand on their own. It is ludicrous to deem them mere tokens. In fact if Bush was a dumb as the haters say, Condi was to all intents and purposes both the first black and the first female President...
      - jbooth 14y ago
        Their accomplishments do stand on their own. You were using them as tokens in the above post, and I called it out. A couple of public figures don't undo an entire culture and electoral strategy.
        gaius 14y ago
        Not at all. Just demonstrating the falseness of the assertion that Republicans don't represent or respect blacks. Once again: The world is not as simple as that. Oh, and while I am here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Democrats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Democrats Southern Democrats are members of the U.S. Democratic Party who reside in the American South. In the 19th century, they were the definitive pro-slavery wing of the party, opposed to both the anti-slavery Republicans (GOP)
        jbooth 14y ago
        The 19th century, thanks. Pretty disingenuous. You already know the content of these links before clicking them, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_rights_(speech) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_rights_(speech) http://newsone.com/16051/top-10-racist-limbaugh-quotes/ http://newsone.com/16051/top-10-racist-limbaugh-quotes/ (just for fun) For what it's worth, I don't think President Bush the person was particularly racist. But he was definitely the #1 candidate among racists.
- moldbug 14y ago
  You'll have to cast out that beam in your eye first. Cabrini-Green is no big deal? http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/2010/10/end-of-cabrini-green.html http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/2010/10/end-of-cabrini-gre... Your choice: grow up without a "right" to vote (not actually a right but a power, and of no direct value to you). Or grow up in Cabrini-Green. Oh, and my party: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobitism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobitism Democracy is working out pretty much as we always expected. Don't you think? You think your system of government is a success? Oh, please, I can't wait to hear this.
rmc 14y ago
In 1962 there were no no-go zones anywhere in America So long as that group kept to their zone. If they go into that zone, then things might happen. Of course the police would take an interest in that group being in that zone, they must be up to no good!
- moldbug 14y ago
  You're right, of course - I'm glad to be corrected. What I really meant to say was that in 1962 there were no no-go zones anywhere in America, Crackerjack Peckerwood Creek in the deep back asshole of Alabama where no one without a mullet in a Camaro would want to go anyway excepted. (Alas, in 1962 there were no Camaros either.) Trust me, I went to high school in Howard County, Maryland, and I would be the last person in the world to speak up for the indigenous American peckerwood. However, I also note that there's a big difference between Peckerwood, Alabama being a no-go zone (if your skin is darker than a bad white zinfandel), and half of Brooklyn being a no-go zone (for any sane person regardless of race, color or creed).
  - jbooth 14y ago
    I really don't understand your contention here. You're claiming that integration ruined Brooklyn? Can you explain the mechanism? I don't see how public housing projects (widely regarded as a failure that cities are transitioning away from) have anything to do with segregation (widely regarded as an moral atrocity). Also, just because there's a lot of black people on the street doesn't mean a neighborhood is dangerous. FYI. (former brooklyn resident).
    - moldbug 14y ago
      You're claiming that integration ruined Brooklyn? Can you explain the mechanism? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing If you ever actually talk to anyone who was personally involved in the former, and they're being frank, they'll tell you that a primary concern was a rational fear for their physical safety and/or that of their families. Which adds up to the latter. Why do you think there are no Serbs left in Kosovo, or no Albanians in Mitrovica? E. Michael Jones's Slaughter of Cities (http://www.amazon.com/The-Slaughter-Cities-Renewal-Cleansing/dp/1587317753 http://www.amazon.com/The-Slaughter-Cities-Renewal-Cleansing...) is a good overview from a j'accuse perspective. For a mainstream author, read J. Anthony Lukas' Common Ground. Better yet, read them both. Of course we've digressed into the question of harmful effects (of the civil-rights movement) on white people. My original post was mainly concerned with the effect on black people. Perhaps you've noticed some cultural changes? Are they for the better? If we could sit down together and watch WSHH for an hour, how exactly would we disagree? http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/ http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/
dredmorbius 14y ago
There were certainly no-go zones in America in 1962. Most of them applied if you were black, however (or in the language of the time, "Negro"). But not all. Casablanca (70 years old this year) includes Rick advising the Germans "there are certain sections of New York, Major, that I wouldn't advise you to try to invade."
- moldbug 14y ago
  Yes (I accept the correction). See below: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3989048 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3989048
guard-of-terra 14y ago
You make it seem like it's either-or. Why don't you consider the option that americans just screwed this good idea up?
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
jleader 14y ago
I don't know how old you are, maybe you've got better info than I do about America in 1962. I wasn't aware of much in 1962, but by the time I could read newspapers in the late 1960s, there very definitely were "no-go zones" for white people in America. And substantial portions of America were still "no-go zones" for non-white Americans, and had been for generations. You might want to look into the term "sundown town".

by moldbug 14y ago

jbooth 14y ago

I can't believe this comment. Segregation and poll taxes were no big deal, right? Things were great for black people back when it was enshrined legal doctrine to treat them as a lower category of people. You want to know why black people vote for the same party every time? Because it's the alternative to your party.

gaius 14y ago
The world is not that simple. Bush had Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice, who did Bill Clinton have? Al Sharpton?
- jbooth 14y ago
  Clinton went on Arsenio Hall. He didn't need tokenism. If you want to claim there's no undercurrent of racism in standard Republican messaging, well, I can't prove it to you. Just know that most black people disagree with you. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/22/simpsons-mocks-fox-news-racist_n_786712.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/22/simpsons-mocks-fox-...
  - gaius 14y ago
    I don't know what that means, but the accomplishments of Powell and Rice stand on their own. It is ludicrous to deem them mere tokens. In fact if Bush was a dumb as the haters say, Condi was to all intents and purposes both the first black and the first female President...
    - jbooth 14y ago
      Their accomplishments do stand on their own. You were using them as tokens in the above post, and I called it out. A couple of public figures don't undo an entire culture and electoral strategy.
      - gaius 14y ago
        Not at all. Just demonstrating the falseness of the assertion that Republicans don't represent or respect blacks. Once again: The world is not as simple as that. Oh, and while I am here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Democrats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Democrats Southern Democrats are members of the U.S. Democratic Party who reside in the American South. In the 19th century, they were the definitive pro-slavery wing of the party, opposed to both the anti-slavery Republicans (GOP)
        jbooth 14y ago
        The 19th century, thanks. Pretty disingenuous. You already know the content of these links before clicking them, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_rights_(speech) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_rights_(speech) http://newsone.com/16051/top-10-racist-limbaugh-quotes/ http://newsone.com/16051/top-10-racist-limbaugh-quotes/ (just for fun) For what it's worth, I don't think President Bush the person was particularly racist. But he was definitely the #1 candidate among racists.
moldbug 14y ago
You'll have to cast out that beam in your eye first. Cabrini-Green is no big deal? http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/2010/10/end-of-cabrini-green.html http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/2010/10/end-of-cabrini-gre... Your choice: grow up without a "right" to vote (not actually a right but a power, and of no direct value to you). Or grow up in Cabrini-Green. Oh, and my party: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobitism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobitism Democracy is working out pretty much as we always expected. Don't you think? You think your system of government is a success? Oh, please, I can't wait to hear this.

rmc 14y ago

In 1962 there were no no-go zones anywhere in America So long as that group kept to their zone. If they go into that zone, then things might happen. Of course the police would take an interest in that group being in that zone, they must be up to no good!

moldbug 14y ago
You're right, of course - I'm glad to be corrected. What I really meant to say was that in 1962 there were no no-go zones anywhere in America, Crackerjack Peckerwood Creek in the deep back asshole of Alabama where no one without a mullet in a Camaro would want to go anyway excepted. (Alas, in 1962 there were no Camaros either.) Trust me, I went to high school in Howard County, Maryland, and I would be the last person in the world to speak up for the indigenous American peckerwood. However, I also note that there's a big difference between Peckerwood, Alabama being a no-go zone (if your skin is darker than a bad white zinfandel), and half of Brooklyn being a no-go zone (for any sane person regardless of race, color or creed).
- jbooth 14y ago
  I really don't understand your contention here. You're claiming that integration ruined Brooklyn? Can you explain the mechanism? I don't see how public housing projects (widely regarded as a failure that cities are transitioning away from) have anything to do with segregation (widely regarded as an moral atrocity). Also, just because there's a lot of black people on the street doesn't mean a neighborhood is dangerous. FYI. (former brooklyn resident).
  - moldbug 14y ago
    You're claiming that integration ruined Brooklyn? Can you explain the mechanism? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing If you ever actually talk to anyone who was personally involved in the former, and they're being frank, they'll tell you that a primary concern was a rational fear for their physical safety and/or that of their families. Which adds up to the latter. Why do you think there are no Serbs left in Kosovo, or no Albanians in Mitrovica? E. Michael Jones's Slaughter of Cities (http://www.amazon.com/The-Slaughter-Cities-Renewal-Cleansing/dp/1587317753 http://www.amazon.com/The-Slaughter-Cities-Renewal-Cleansing...) is a good overview from a j'accuse perspective. For a mainstream author, read J. Anthony Lukas' Common Ground. Better yet, read them both. Of course we've digressed into the question of harmful effects (of the civil-rights movement) on white people. My original post was mainly concerned with the effect on black people. Perhaps you've noticed some cultural changes? Are they for the better? If we could sit down together and watch WSHH for an hour, how exactly would we disagree? http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/ http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/

dredmorbius 14y ago

There were certainly no-go zones in America in 1962. Most of them applied if you were black, however (or in the language of the time, "Negro"). But not all. Casablanca (70 years old this year) includes Rick advising the Germans "there are certain sections of New York, Major, that I wouldn't advise you to try to invade."

moldbug 14y ago
Yes (I accept the correction). See below: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3989048 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3989048

guard-of-terra 14y ago

You make it seem like it's either-or. Why don't you consider the option that americans just screwed this good idea up?

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

jleader 14y ago

I don't know how old you are, maybe you've got better info than I do about America in 1962. I wasn't aware of much in 1962, but by the time I could read newspapers in the late 1960s, there very definitely were "no-go zones" for white people in America. And substantial portions of America were still "no-go zones" for non-white Americans, and had been for generations. You might want to look into the term "sundown town".