4 ms·

I work in Motorsports and a parts tracking database is an actual unsolved problem with each team building it's own bespoke solution. It's also kinda unique beca

I work in Motorsports and a parts tracking database is an actual unsolved problem with each team building it's own bespoke solution. It's also kinda unique because your simulation tool is connected to the parts database and part of the tool has to work offline for running simulations in the plane. I'm not really a database person so never really understood why off the shelf solutions aren't typically used here. I'm guessing Williams probably just didn't have the budget to build one and didn't know any better so they used Excel.

Jtsummers 3y ago
It sounds like they were using the Excel spreadsheet for a WBS or scheduling application. There are a million and one COTS products for that. They probably used Excel because whoever did the initial task didn't know, or didn't have the time to learn about, tools like MS Project or whatever else that could have helped them, or only knew of larger scheduling tools that require a sys admin to set up and run. The reasons Excel gets used for anything: 1. It's present. 2. It's "free". (Corporate already paid for it.) 3. It's easy at the current scale of the problem 4. It doesn't require servers to use. 5. Someone else created it 20 years ago and no one pushed to use a real DB or specialized COTS product because that takes more effort. 6. It's actually an appropriate tool for the job (very common, but not the #1 reason it's used).
- justinclift 3y ago
  > MS Project Heh, ~10 years ago that program used to be incredibly bad, losing information and getting getting things wrong. To the point where on some (larger) projects they'd have a separate project manager actually doing the work in a different system, but then update everything into MS Project every week just to comply with upper management directives. :/ Has it gotten any better?
  - Jtsummers 3y ago
    I used it most when you did. I found it acceptable, but not stellar. I never heard of it losing data. Most of the issues were with people not adapting to it and trying to make it work like the in-house tool it replaced (which was buggy, slow, and did lose data regularly). But yes, a lot of people didn't like it and just updated it from their separate spreadsheets or whatever on a weekly or monthly basis depending on when reports were generated.
- wrycoder 3y ago
  Can you recommend a FLOSS alternative for MS Project? I haven’t found one.
  - Jtsummers 3y ago
    Nope, everyone these days wants to use Jira or Gitlab or something so that's what I use. I'm back to an IC role (and have been for a while) and am trying to stay out of project management in general. I hated the politics of it all.
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    My first instinct reading that question was a StackOverflow like "why would you do that ? do Y instead" type answer. I've used MS Project more than a decade ago for one or two project and just gave up to do what the sister comments are describing: manage the project elsewhere, with JIRA tickets, one or two gantt charts and some more excel sheets as needed. I never had data loss or straight bugs, it just didn't feel more useful than any of the other tools it's supposed to replace. Project status was always more complex than what could be fed into it, so I had to keep track of it elsewhere anyway. Task status needed deeper integration with github and other tools, we're writing tickets and epics etc. anyway so JIRA projects were better suited. Then it lacked enough simplicity and flexibility to be used as an adhoc gantt tool. The whole concept just feels doomed in my eyes when it comes to software projects.
naasking 3y ago
> I'm guessing Williams probably just didn't have the budget to build one and didn't know any better so they used Excel. Ironic, because they've probably wasted a lot more time hammering Excel (or their heads on the keyboard) to get it to do what they want than if they had done some real programming.
Closi 3y ago
There is an off the shelf product for what is described in the article - it’s an ERP that includes a WMS (or even possibly just a WMS plus some ordering/forecasting software).
quartesixte 3y ago
Parts tracking is an unsolved problem in general. Everyone in manufacturing is winging it in Excel or runs into enough chaos-complexity that violates the bounds of whatever software they’re using (homegrown or bought) that they port a part of the problem to Excel. This is a billion dollar problem.
- ddejohn 3y ago
  > Parts tracking is an unsolved problem in general. As somebody not at all familiar with the space -- why?
  - iancmceachern 3y ago
    Because you can either do it with excel spreadsheets or insanely expensive PDM/ERP software like SAP which is insanely expensive to setup and anyone who has ever used it will tell you is terrible. There used to be middle road options like netsuite but they were bought by SAP. There are alsoneays to do it in Catia, etc like the airplane folks do, but that's also insanely expensive. People are now using airtable to do it
    - jasonwatkinspdx 3y ago
      I once met a systems integrator that specialized in SAP. His standard billing rate was $7k per hour. This was 20 years ago too. Doing anything with SAP at scale is insanely expensive, and it's hard not to conclude it's by design in the sense of misaligned incentives.
    - Asraelite 3y ago
      PDM, ERP, SAP, WBS, COTS, WMS, CRDT. I have no idea what anybody's talking about. I need that Reddit bot which explains the acronyms in a thread.
      - 486sx33 3y ago
        PDM = product data management ERP = enterprise resource planning SAP = The name is an initialism of the company’s original German name: Systemanalyse Programmentwicklung, which translates to System Analysis Program Development. WBS = work breakdown structure COTS = commercial off the shelf WMS = warehouse management system CRDT = Conflict-free Replicated Data Type Some of these acronyms are quite old, but continue to be used as they make sense to the people in those spaces.
lylejantzi3rd 3y ago
> It's also kinda unique This is why off the shelf solutions aren't typically used. I looked into creating an MRP software a few years back. What I found is that every single company has their own process that is incompatible with everybody else's and they aren't interesting in changing it (it works for us!) That's the reason MRP/ERP systems are so expensive and complicated. It has to be flexible enough to work for everybody. That takes a lot of developer time to create, generates a lot of bugs, etc. It also makes setup and integration a daunting task, which is why SAP integrators can charge $7k/hr (as somebody else in this thread mentioned). The developer time required also makes them extremely expensive, which is why most ERP packages focus on billion dollar global companies; they can afford it.
kirkarg 3y ago
I our company we use a CMMS to keep track of medical devices and their parts with the corresponding sub parts and so on (much like a tree). Shouldn't a system like this help with the problem?

Jtsummers 3y ago

It sounds like they were using the Excel spreadsheet for a WBS or scheduling application. There are a million and one COTS products for that. They probably used Excel because whoever did the initial task didn't know, or didn't have the time to learn about, tools like MS Project or whatever else that could have helped them, or only knew of larger scheduling tools that require a sys admin to set up and run. The reasons Excel gets used for anything: 1. It's present. 2. It's "free". (Corporate already paid for it.) 3. It's easy at the current scale of the problem 4. It doesn't require servers to use. 5. Someone else created it 20 years ago and no one pushed to use a real DB or specialized COTS product because that takes more effort. 6. It's actually an appropriate tool for the job (very common, but not the #1 reason it's used).

justinclift 3y ago
> MS Project Heh, ~10 years ago that program used to be incredibly bad, losing information and getting getting things wrong. To the point where on some (larger) projects they'd have a separate project manager actually doing the work in a different system, but then update everything into MS Project every week just to comply with upper management directives. :/ Has it gotten any better?
- Jtsummers 3y ago
  I used it most when you did. I found it acceptable, but not stellar. I never heard of it losing data. Most of the issues were with people not adapting to it and trying to make it work like the in-house tool it replaced (which was buggy, slow, and did lose data regularly). But yes, a lot of people didn't like it and just updated it from their separate spreadsheets or whatever on a weekly or monthly basis depending on when reports were generated.
wrycoder 3y ago
Can you recommend a FLOSS alternative for MS Project? I haven’t found one.
- Jtsummers 3y ago
  Nope, everyone these days wants to use Jira or Gitlab or something so that's what I use. I'm back to an IC role (and have been for a while) and am trying to stay out of project management in general. I hated the politics of it all.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  My first instinct reading that question was a StackOverflow like "why would you do that ? do Y instead" type answer. I've used MS Project more than a decade ago for one or two project and just gave up to do what the sister comments are describing: manage the project elsewhere, with JIRA tickets, one or two gantt charts and some more excel sheets as needed. I never had data loss or straight bugs, it just didn't feel more useful than any of the other tools it's supposed to replace. Project status was always more complex than what could be fed into it, so I had to keep track of it elsewhere anyway. Task status needed deeper integration with github and other tools, we're writing tickets and epics etc. anyway so JIRA projects were better suited. Then it lacked enough simplicity and flexibility to be used as an adhoc gantt tool. The whole concept just feels doomed in my eyes when it comes to software projects.

naasking 3y ago

> I'm guessing Williams probably just didn't have the budget to build one and didn't know any better so they used Excel. Ironic, because they've probably wasted a lot more time hammering Excel (or their heads on the keyboard) to get it to do what they want than if they had done some real programming.

Closi 3y ago

There is an off the shelf product for what is described in the article - it’s an ERP that includes a WMS (or even possibly just a WMS plus some ordering/forecasting software).

quartesixte 3y ago

Parts tracking is an unsolved problem in general. Everyone in manufacturing is winging it in Excel or runs into enough chaos-complexity that violates the bounds of whatever software they’re using (homegrown or bought) that they port a part of the problem to Excel. This is a billion dollar problem.

ddejohn 3y ago
> Parts tracking is an unsolved problem in general. As somebody not at all familiar with the space -- why?
- iancmceachern 3y ago
  Because you can either do it with excel spreadsheets or insanely expensive PDM/ERP software like SAP which is insanely expensive to setup and anyone who has ever used it will tell you is terrible. There used to be middle road options like netsuite but they were bought by SAP. There are alsoneays to do it in Catia, etc like the airplane folks do, but that's also insanely expensive. People are now using airtable to do it
  - jasonwatkinspdx 3y ago
    I once met a systems integrator that specialized in SAP. His standard billing rate was $7k per hour. This was 20 years ago too. Doing anything with SAP at scale is insanely expensive, and it's hard not to conclude it's by design in the sense of misaligned incentives.
  - Asraelite 3y ago
    PDM, ERP, SAP, WBS, COTS, WMS, CRDT. I have no idea what anybody's talking about. I need that Reddit bot which explains the acronyms in a thread.
    - 486sx33 3y ago
      PDM = product data management ERP = enterprise resource planning SAP = The name is an initialism of the company’s original German name: Systemanalyse Programmentwicklung, which translates to System Analysis Program Development. WBS = work breakdown structure COTS = commercial off the shelf WMS = warehouse management system CRDT = Conflict-free Replicated Data Type Some of these acronyms are quite old, but continue to be used as they make sense to the people in those spaces.

lylejantzi3rd 3y ago

> It's also kinda unique This is why off the shelf solutions aren't typically used. I looked into creating an MRP software a few years back. What I found is that every single company has their own process that is incompatible with everybody else's and they aren't interesting in changing it (it works for us!) That's the reason MRP/ERP systems are so expensive and complicated. It has to be flexible enough to work for everybody. That takes a lot of developer time to create, generates a lot of bugs, etc. It also makes setup and integration a daunting task, which is why SAP integrators can charge $7k/hr (as somebody else in this thread mentioned). The developer time required also makes them extremely expensive, which is why most ERP packages focus on billion dollar global companies; they can afford it.

kirkarg 3y ago

I our company we use a CMMS to keep track of medical devices and their parts with the corresponding sub parts and so on (much like a tree). Shouldn't a system like this help with the problem?