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My general working thesis is that 99.9% of the time when people refer to the “deep state,” they just mean “the state.” Aren’t you just referring to regular gov

My general working thesis is that 99.9% of the time when people refer to the “deep state,” they just mean “the state.” Aren’t you just referring to regular government institutions or is there something I’m missing from your comment?

macintux 3y ago
Can’t speak to the original comment, but I think part of a “deep state” is institutional inertia/tradition. A state without that deep-rooted sense of continuity is much more fragile. Having a civil service without political allegiance seems to be critical to preservation of a democratic system.
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  Why are you under the impression that the bureaucracy class does not have a political leaning/allegiance? We know it does, 95% of DC votes for the people that want larger government.
  - macintux 3y ago
    Allegiance is not the same thing as a tendency. And the fact that one party uses smaller government as part of its sales pitch may not last forever. In the U.S. I would say that Trump’s takeover of the GOP has generally de-emphasized smaller government as a plank of the party. He certainly doesn’t care about it. Whether the bureaucrats lean towards one party or the other doesn’t change the fact that they aren’t compelled out of fear for their jobs to break the law at the president’s command.
    - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
      > Whether the bureaucrats lean towards one party or the other doesn’t change the fact that they aren’t compelled out of fear for their jobs to break the law at the president’s command. I’m thinking about all of the politically motivated “leaks”, the weaponization of institutions like the FBI, DOJ, IRS and I’m just wondering how you are seriously saying above. The “deep state” or “the state” or “the elites” or “ the bureaucracy class” or whatever you want to call it and whatever you want to claim it exists for… is a different topic than “they don’t break the law”. I’m thinking I must be really misunderstanding your text, because that’s just ridiculous.
      - macintux 3y ago
        The thesis that started this thread: the deep state protects democracy. Obviously if you interpret “deep state” as “secret cabals of evildoers” then yes, that’s a nonsensical argument. My personal interpretation of the “deep state” argument that Trump has been bandying around is that he means “people who resist my desire to do whatever I want as President”.
        SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
        And when it politically aligns with you, you’re happy to say “preserves democracy” while ignoring all the evil and law breaking I guess?
  - searealist 3y ago
    The "deep state" organizations skew 90%+ Democrat.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
Kamq 3y ago
Generally speaking, the term "deep state" refers to informal power structures within the state apparatus that work against the will of the people. Which... can be a government institution... but not generally in a democracy.

macintux 3y ago

Can’t speak to the original comment, but I think part of a “deep state” is institutional inertia/tradition. A state without that deep-rooted sense of continuity is much more fragile. Having a civil service without political allegiance seems to be critical to preservation of a democratic system.

SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
Why are you under the impression that the bureaucracy class does not have a political leaning/allegiance? We know it does, 95% of DC votes for the people that want larger government.
- macintux 3y ago
  Allegiance is not the same thing as a tendency. And the fact that one party uses smaller government as part of its sales pitch may not last forever. In the U.S. I would say that Trump’s takeover of the GOP has generally de-emphasized smaller government as a plank of the party. He certainly doesn’t care about it. Whether the bureaucrats lean towards one party or the other doesn’t change the fact that they aren’t compelled out of fear for their jobs to break the law at the president’s command.
  - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
    > Whether the bureaucrats lean towards one party or the other doesn’t change the fact that they aren’t compelled out of fear for their jobs to break the law at the president’s command. I’m thinking about all of the politically motivated “leaks”, the weaponization of institutions like the FBI, DOJ, IRS and I’m just wondering how you are seriously saying above. The “deep state” or “the state” or “the elites” or “ the bureaucracy class” or whatever you want to call it and whatever you want to claim it exists for… is a different topic than “they don’t break the law”. I’m thinking I must be really misunderstanding your text, because that’s just ridiculous.
    - macintux 3y ago
      The thesis that started this thread: the deep state protects democracy. Obviously if you interpret “deep state” as “secret cabals of evildoers” then yes, that’s a nonsensical argument. My personal interpretation of the “deep state” argument that Trump has been bandying around is that he means “people who resist my desire to do whatever I want as President”.
      - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
        And when it politically aligns with you, you’re happy to say “preserves democracy” while ignoring all the evil and law breaking I guess?
- searealist 3y ago
  The "deep state" organizations skew 90%+ Democrat.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

Kamq 3y ago

Generally speaking, the term "deep state" refers to informal power structures within the state apparatus that work against the will of the people. Which... can be a government institution... but not generally in a democracy.