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I’m very confused by this focus of Hamas supposedly outlawing opposition press. By far the largest threat to free press in Gaza has come from the Israeli milita

I’m very confused by this focus of Hamas supposedly outlawing opposition press. By far the largest threat to free press in Gaza has come from the Israeli military, that targets Journalists both in Gaza and the West Bank, does not allow free press access, etc. Even before Oct 7, the Israeli military destroyed the office of AP in 2021[1]. I’m still waiting for any credible excuse for why they did that (other then to limit press freedom in Gaza). And a year later they targeted and murdered journalist Shireen Abu Akleh. I’m not super informed about journalism and news access in Gaza (reading about it here[2]), but I was under the impression that Gazans get news from all over the world, not just Al-Aqsa TV, including PBC from the West Bank (meanwhile I’m not sure al-Aqsa TV is available except via satellite in the West Bank). I can be wrong about this, but from what I’m reading it appears that the most widely circulated newspaper in Palestine is al-Quds (based in Jerusalem obviously) which is also circulated in Gaza. In any case, the Gazans I follow on social media seem to have no problem getting news from non-Hamas sources. So whatever press restrictions Hamas is enforcing, it doesn’t seem to affect the news Gazans are actually receiving much, and if you compare that to the restrictions the Israeli military imposes and the destruction they cause, Hamas is a very minor player in limiting press freedom in Gaza. 1: https://apnews.com/article/israel-middle-east-business-israel-palestinian-conflict-fe452147166f55ba5a9d32e6ba8b53d7 https://apnews.com/article/israel-middle-east-business-israe... 2: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-14631745 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-14631745

tptacek 3y ago
I admit to being flummoxed by this line of argumentation, since Hamas is famous for throwing supporters of the PA off rooftops during the 2006 elections --- the fact that only a small minority of Gazans are old enough ever to have voted in an election in Gaza is part of why collectively punishing them for Hamas' actions is so atrocious. Amnesty has been running campaigns about Hamas suppression of the press for almost a decade now. You're making, as well, the argument that Gazans have access to real journalism (and may themselves practice real journalism) in spite of Hamas. I agree completely. I made a very narrow point about a comparison drawn between Hamas and Israel, that's all.
- runarberg 3y ago
  The comparison may be just if you only look at Hamas’ restriction within Gaza and Israel’s government restriction within Israel. However, if you include Israel’s restriction on Gaza and (the relatively minute, but still non-zero) Hamas’ restriction on Israel, you will find a massive tower overlooking the other three. Israel’s press freedom within Israel is perhaps much better than Gaza’s press freedom within Palestine (as dictated by Hamas). But Palestinians still suffer much much much lower press freedom and Israel enforces several orders of magnitude worse press suppression if you include the cross national interference. Your point is perhaps correct if we keep it narrow. However, I think it is wrong to keep it this narrow, because it obfuscates a very real democratic malpractice done by the state of Israel.
  - tptacek 3y ago
    There's no "if we keep it narrow". It's a narrow point. I'm not here to defend the democratic practices of Israel, or any other country, just to say that Hamas would murder you for trying to stand up a major news outlet opposed to Hamas's control of Gaza. That Hamas is extraordinarily bad does not make Israel good.
    - runarberg 3y ago
      You were trying to argue that your ancestor was employing a false equivalence, that the disinformation campaign on both sides were in fact not equally bad. I agree that there is a false equivalence, however I disagree with you that it is Hamas which is extraordinarily bad while Israel is relatively not as bad. The actions Israel employs against free press during this genocide are telling, and have consequences. There may be free press within Israel, however that free press does not have access to Gaza because the Israeli military does not grant them access. The targeting of journalists the Israeli military is guilty of also has consequences for the supposedly free Israeli press. If you are working in Gaza and you are afraid Hamas member will push you off rooftops if you publish a critical piece, well... if you are an Israeli journalist, you should indeed be very afraid if you are going to cover a story about Israel’s crime in Gaza. More then a few journalists have indeed be targeted and killed by the Israeli military for trying to do that, including international journalists. What you should take from this is that it is the Israeli military that has the greater potential to lie about their crimes here, and there is no free press in this world (especially not in Israel) which can safely cover those lies.

tptacek 3y ago

I admit to being flummoxed by this line of argumentation, since Hamas is famous for throwing supporters of the PA off rooftops during the 2006 elections --- the fact that only a small minority of Gazans are old enough ever to have voted in an election in Gaza is part of why collectively punishing them for Hamas' actions is so atrocious. Amnesty has been running campaigns about Hamas suppression of the press for almost a decade now. You're making, as well, the argument that Gazans have access to real journalism (and may themselves practice real journalism) in spite of Hamas. I agree completely. I made a very narrow point about a comparison drawn between Hamas and Israel, that's all.

runarberg 3y ago
The comparison may be just if you only look at Hamas’ restriction within Gaza and Israel’s government restriction within Israel. However, if you include Israel’s restriction on Gaza and (the relatively minute, but still non-zero) Hamas’ restriction on Israel, you will find a massive tower overlooking the other three. Israel’s press freedom within Israel is perhaps much better than Gaza’s press freedom within Palestine (as dictated by Hamas). But Palestinians still suffer much much much lower press freedom and Israel enforces several orders of magnitude worse press suppression if you include the cross national interference. Your point is perhaps correct if we keep it narrow. However, I think it is wrong to keep it this narrow, because it obfuscates a very real democratic malpractice done by the state of Israel.
- tptacek 3y ago
  There's no "if we keep it narrow". It's a narrow point. I'm not here to defend the democratic practices of Israel, or any other country, just to say that Hamas would murder you for trying to stand up a major news outlet opposed to Hamas's control of Gaza. That Hamas is extraordinarily bad does not make Israel good.
  - runarberg 3y ago
    You were trying to argue that your ancestor was employing a false equivalence, that the disinformation campaign on both sides were in fact not equally bad. I agree that there is a false equivalence, however I disagree with you that it is Hamas which is extraordinarily bad while Israel is relatively not as bad. The actions Israel employs against free press during this genocide are telling, and have consequences. There may be free press within Israel, however that free press does not have access to Gaza because the Israeli military does not grant them access. The targeting of journalists the Israeli military is guilty of also has consequences for the supposedly free Israeli press. If you are working in Gaza and you are afraid Hamas member will push you off rooftops if you publish a critical piece, well... if you are an Israeli journalist, you should indeed be very afraid if you are going to cover a story about Israel’s crime in Gaza. More then a few journalists have indeed be targeted and killed by the Israeli military for trying to do that, including international journalists. What you should take from this is that it is the Israeli military that has the greater potential to lie about their crimes here, and there is no free press in this world (especially not in Israel) which can safely cover those lies.