3 ms·

There's not a single drug company on the market that stops charging a high price for a drug as soon its covered its research expenditure.

rapatel0 3y ago
you also need to cover the cost of the 100 drugs that failed at various stages of the pipeline. Not saying that it's not a screwed up industry, but stories like these distort the problem as well
- kittiepryde 3y ago
  Are the people running drug companies barely scraping by?
  - ecocentrik 3y ago
    Not nearly as much as they claim they are. The system is basically rigged in their favor. Just compare the financial statements of companies like Ford and Boeing to Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk. Pharma does very good business.
  - rapatel0 3y ago
    Obviously not, but my general experience with conversations like these is that people never do the math. If we split the profits across all of the people that "deserve reimbursement" you usually end up with a few dollars per person. Definitely, not enough to make a meaningful impact. Additionally, the American consumer subsidizes R&D and costs for the rest of the world. America routinely pays 5x-20x more for drugs than other countries and American grants account for >50% of worldwide medical research funding (caveat: the last time I checked). Yup, even Europe is a fraction of what America pays. I would encourage you to actually do the math and decide for yourself rather than taking (or anyone else's) word for it.
- GoodJokes 3y ago
  [dead]
briandear 3y ago
Should they not profit on that capital invested for that research? Do landlords drop rents when the loan is paid off? Of course not, they’re going to price rents what the market supports. Competition is what makes markets work. Invent a drug? And someone else invents a similar drug? Prices will go down.
- nvy 3y ago
  There's no free market for lifesaving drugs. Just extortion.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    Is it ethical for a doctor to accept payment for life-saving services, then? A much more interesting discussion could be had around who pays for it (and how, and how the prices come to be as high etc.) – because somebody ultimately does.
    - gtvwill 3y ago
      Nope it's not. They can get paid a wage from gov and charge nothing. Private Healthcare in its entirety is unethical. Shouldnt exist. Full stop.
      - lxgr 3y ago
        That's exactly the more interesting discussion I meant. Who pays the doctor, nurse, pharmaceutical companies, how are wages and prices negotiated etc. But I hope you agree that in all of these models, the doctor does in the end get paid, i.e. accepts payment? I never said that the patient should be the one paying them directly. But if nobody does, there will be no doctor.
        gtvwill 3y ago
        Have the entire healthcare system gov run. Need funds for it? Write em up out of thin air. Keep wages pegged above avg labor market because having a healthy society is more productive than an unhealthy one. To the extent where all other industries come 2nd as they are basically useless without healthcare keeping their workforce alive. Can't run a company if all your workers can't get well once they get sick. Literal unnecessary waste of human resources all because we want to prop up a few folks profits? The jobs and demand for the work will still be there if it's gov run, you just don't have a swathe of investors profiting off it. Zero loss. Go invest elsewhere. One of the arguments against this is inflation from creating money out of thin air to fund it. Its a lie. The service is required and you don't get inflation from paying folks a wage to do a job. You do get it by propping up profits of private companies which essentually through the fattening of their bank accounts devalues money. Remember if you have a large number of folks competing for a good or service and they are all on similar playing fields (e.g wages near market avg), competition is high, the value of each dollar earned remains high. If you have a handful of companies with buying power that far outweighs that of others allowing them to capture more than their share of a service or good because they can literally just throw more money at it than the majority of us can. This drives Inflation. It devalues money creating a new norm of your dollars being worth less. Tldr: The benefit from entirely gov funded healthcare far outweighs that of a privatized system.

rapatel0 3y ago

you also need to cover the cost of the 100 drugs that failed at various stages of the pipeline. Not saying that it's not a screwed up industry, but stories like these distort the problem as well

kittiepryde 3y ago
Are the people running drug companies barely scraping by?
- ecocentrik 3y ago
  Not nearly as much as they claim they are. The system is basically rigged in their favor. Just compare the financial statements of companies like Ford and Boeing to Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk. Pharma does very good business.
- rapatel0 3y ago
  Obviously not, but my general experience with conversations like these is that people never do the math. If we split the profits across all of the people that "deserve reimbursement" you usually end up with a few dollars per person. Definitely, not enough to make a meaningful impact. Additionally, the American consumer subsidizes R&D and costs for the rest of the world. America routinely pays 5x-20x more for drugs than other countries and American grants account for >50% of worldwide medical research funding (caveat: the last time I checked). Yup, even Europe is a fraction of what America pays. I would encourage you to actually do the math and decide for yourself rather than taking (or anyone else's) word for it.
GoodJokes 3y ago
[dead]

briandear 3y ago

Should they not profit on that capital invested for that research? Do landlords drop rents when the loan is paid off? Of course not, they’re going to price rents what the market supports. Competition is what makes markets work. Invent a drug? And someone else invents a similar drug? Prices will go down.

nvy 3y ago
There's no free market for lifesaving drugs. Just extortion.
- lxgr 3y ago
  Is it ethical for a doctor to accept payment for life-saving services, then? A much more interesting discussion could be had around who pays for it (and how, and how the prices come to be as high etc.) – because somebody ultimately does.
  - gtvwill 3y ago
    Nope it's not. They can get paid a wage from gov and charge nothing. Private Healthcare in its entirety is unethical. Shouldnt exist. Full stop.
    - lxgr 3y ago
      That's exactly the more interesting discussion I meant. Who pays the doctor, nurse, pharmaceutical companies, how are wages and prices negotiated etc. But I hope you agree that in all of these models, the doctor does in the end get paid, i.e. accepts payment? I never said that the patient should be the one paying them directly. But if nobody does, there will be no doctor.
      - gtvwill 3y ago
        Have the entire healthcare system gov run. Need funds for it? Write em up out of thin air. Keep wages pegged above avg labor market because having a healthy society is more productive than an unhealthy one. To the extent where all other industries come 2nd as they are basically useless without healthcare keeping their workforce alive. Can't run a company if all your workers can't get well once they get sick. Literal unnecessary waste of human resources all because we want to prop up a few folks profits? The jobs and demand for the work will still be there if it's gov run, you just don't have a swathe of investors profiting off it. Zero loss. Go invest elsewhere. One of the arguments against this is inflation from creating money out of thin air to fund it. Its a lie. The service is required and you don't get inflation from paying folks a wage to do a job. You do get it by propping up profits of private companies which essentually through the fattening of their bank accounts devalues money. Remember if you have a large number of folks competing for a good or service and they are all on similar playing fields (e.g wages near market avg), competition is high, the value of each dollar earned remains high. If you have a handful of companies with buying power that far outweighs that of others allowing them to capture more than their share of a service or good because they can literally just throw more money at it than the majority of us can. This drives Inflation. It devalues money creating a new norm of your dollars being worth less. Tldr: The benefit from entirely gov funded healthcare far outweighs that of a privatized system.