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“The problem with the program is not that the goal is not laudable. It is that the program has not really been designed to achieve its goals,” he said. A patte

“The problem with the program is not that the goal is not laudable. It is that the program has not really been designed to achieve its goals,” he said. A pattern with the current government. Even with their main fulfilled promise of legalization of Cannabis, the stated goal throughout the legislative process was to undercut and eventually choke off the black market. Instead they cherry picked the most onerous regulations from the alcohol and pharma industries and taxed it like tobacco… while basically ending any sort of enforcement against black market operators. 5 years in the black market is larger and more public facing than ever, while licensed producers all circle the financial drain because they can’t possibly compete with illegal growers and retailers who pay no tax and follow no regulations (eg. release testing for pesticides, herbicides, heavy metals, mold).

gottorf 3y ago
> Instead they cherry picked the most onerous regulations from the alcohol and pharma industries and taxed it like tobacco… while basically ending any sort of enforcement against black market operators. The worst of both worlds!
passwordoops 3y ago
Just listened to a podcast today with a focus on the Ontario budget, but they do discuss how this pattern is the norm for most, if not not all, provincial governments too. (1) It's like governing is the end goal and not a means for the political class, so we end up with crummy policy across the board. (1) https://thehub.ca/2024-03-29/this-government-is-oblivious-the-roundtable-on-doug-fords-free-spending-ontario-budget-and-canadas-rapid-population-growth/ https://thehub.ca/2024-03-29/this-government-is-oblivious-th...
- beezlebroxxxxxx 3y ago
  The general sense I get from every Canadian politician, regardless of whether they're at the municipal, provincial, or federal, level, and regardless of party, is that they are much better at getting elected or re-elected than they are at actually passing legislation or making their stated platforms a reality. The federal level would be helped with an actual 3rd contender, but the NDP have been floundering since Layton passed. Instead the 2 major parties are just ideological vacuums with no point or goal but to cycle in and out of power.
  - multiplegeorges 3y ago
    The NDP have forced the current Liberals to pass two of the most impactful programs in a LONG time: universal dental coverage and now pharmacare. They may be floundering in the polls, sadly, but their impact has been immense.
    - 14 3y ago
      Sadly the NDP have lost their way and will not be winning an election for a long time. Jagmeet needs to be replaced. Move away from liberal policies and create their own political agenda that defines them.
    - transcriptase 3y ago
      Neither of those are true. The dental care is a $500 a year reimbursement for some children and seniors, and the pharmacare covers contraception and diabetes medication. There’s not even an expansion plan developed for either.
      - verall 3y ago
        I guess since I'm in the states the bar is below the floor but $500/yr dental reimbursement for kids and pharamacare covering contraception and diabetes medication sounds incredibly helpful for low income people.
  - avtar 3y ago
    The following article sheds some light on the corporate lobbying that's been taking place within the NDP (provincial and federal) since Layton's era: https://breachmedia.ca/ndp-lobbyists/ https://breachmedia.ca/ndp-lobbyists/ Seems like it's just neoliberalism all the way down, regardless of the party.
    - tacocataco 3y ago
      Getting rid of First Past The Post voting would have allowed people to vote for a political party that represents them best. Didn't quite make it in Canada. Best of luck to yall next time. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ask-electoral-reform-2021-federal-election-1.6163972 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ask-electoral-reform-2021-f...
bryanlarsen 3y ago
The cannabis black market is steadily shrinking in Canada. https://mjbizdaily.com/canadas-legal-cannabis-market-winning-over-illicit-consumers-survey-suggests/ https://mjbizdaily.com/canadas-legal-cannabis-market-winning...
- __s 3y ago
  That also matches my experience I know people who cynically assumed legal weed would be overpriced & low quality. Figured they'd stick with their dealer. Now they just buy legal Say what you want about cost of regulation. Running illegal operations has its costs & inefficiencies too
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
14 3y ago
There are definitely struggles on both sides of the matter. Regulated sellers have the worst expensive low potency weed. Black market producers can no longer sell at a high premium. The government made these rules knowing it would perpetuate the black market. People want to see the weed they are buying yet sanctioned stores have to have all their products in packaging you can not see through. Edibles have to be of such low potency it is laughable. They stores are selling weed that is 9+ months old. So many issues. Black market guy just selling high quality weed he smokes himself so no he doesn’t put any crazy pesticides or things like that into it. Has to make one wonder why the government made these rules when they serve no purpose other than making a black market viable. But again the struggle is on both sides gone are the days of $2500 a pound. It’s way down.
- lotsoweiners 3y ago
  > Edibles have to be of such low potency it is laughable. I must be a lightweight because just about every edible I take knocks me on my ass. They certainly seem more potent than the flower I get at the dispensaries in my area.
fbdab103 3y ago
There was a Planet Money story[0] about how legal growers are struggling because there is too much competition from not enough buyers. Maybe black market competition is to blame, but I would love to see some hard numbers on where the majority of purchases are made. My knee jerk reaction is to believe that most people are lazy and will pay for the convenience of a brightly lit store front instead of locating their local dealer. Choice quote from the article: There are just over four million people in Oregon, and so far this year, farmers have grown 8.8 million pounds of weed. Which means there's nearly a pound of dried, smokable weed for every single person in the state of Oregon. As a result, the sales price for legal marijuana in the last couple of years has plummeted. [0] https://www.npr.org/2023/11/29/1197955821/marijuana-state-federal-laws-trade https://www.npr.org/2023/11/29/1197955821/marijuana-state-fe...
- o11c 3y ago
  Maybe it's also that, now that there's no longer a taboo, more people are realizing how outright obnoxious smoking weed is? It seems worse than tobacco ever was, but that's probably a result of poor memory.
  - hackernewds 3y ago
    seems very unlikely. ease of access proliferates use especially of addictive behaviors and vices, not the prohibitive-ness
- Arch485 3y ago
  The cannabis black market in Canada is actually _more_ convenient than the legalized stores. Not far from where I live, there are _tons_ of illegal/unregulated dispensaries. In many cases, the only tipoff you get that these aren't regulated is the low prices. They outperform legal dispensaries in every way: no purchase limits, lower prices, you can buy your cigs + vape pens + cannabis all in one place, they basically never ID people, etc. People who use cannabis are strongly incentivised to buy the illegal stuff, because the regulated market is too draconian and expensive.

gottorf 3y ago

> Instead they cherry picked the most onerous regulations from the alcohol and pharma industries and taxed it like tobacco… while basically ending any sort of enforcement against black market operators. The worst of both worlds!

passwordoops 3y ago

Just listened to a podcast today with a focus on the Ontario budget, but they do discuss how this pattern is the norm for most, if not not all, provincial governments too. (1) It's like governing is the end goal and not a means for the political class, so we end up with crummy policy across the board. (1) https://thehub.ca/2024-03-29/this-government-is-oblivious-the-roundtable-on-doug-fords-free-spending-ontario-budget-and-canadas-rapid-population-growth/ https://thehub.ca/2024-03-29/this-government-is-oblivious-th...

beezlebroxxxxxx 3y ago
The general sense I get from every Canadian politician, regardless of whether they're at the municipal, provincial, or federal, level, and regardless of party, is that they are much better at getting elected or re-elected than they are at actually passing legislation or making their stated platforms a reality. The federal level would be helped with an actual 3rd contender, but the NDP have been floundering since Layton passed. Instead the 2 major parties are just ideological vacuums with no point or goal but to cycle in and out of power.
- multiplegeorges 3y ago
  The NDP have forced the current Liberals to pass two of the most impactful programs in a LONG time: universal dental coverage and now pharmacare. They may be floundering in the polls, sadly, but their impact has been immense.
  - 14 3y ago
    Sadly the NDP have lost their way and will not be winning an election for a long time. Jagmeet needs to be replaced. Move away from liberal policies and create their own political agenda that defines them.
  - transcriptase 3y ago
    Neither of those are true. The dental care is a $500 a year reimbursement for some children and seniors, and the pharmacare covers contraception and diabetes medication. There’s not even an expansion plan developed for either.
    - verall 3y ago
      I guess since I'm in the states the bar is below the floor but $500/yr dental reimbursement for kids and pharamacare covering contraception and diabetes medication sounds incredibly helpful for low income people.
- avtar 3y ago
  The following article sheds some light on the corporate lobbying that's been taking place within the NDP (provincial and federal) since Layton's era: https://breachmedia.ca/ndp-lobbyists/ https://breachmedia.ca/ndp-lobbyists/ Seems like it's just neoliberalism all the way down, regardless of the party.
  - tacocataco 3y ago
    Getting rid of First Past The Post voting would have allowed people to vote for a political party that represents them best. Didn't quite make it in Canada. Best of luck to yall next time. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ask-electoral-reform-2021-federal-election-1.6163972 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ask-electoral-reform-2021-f...

bryanlarsen 3y ago

The cannabis black market is steadily shrinking in Canada. https://mjbizdaily.com/canadas-legal-cannabis-market-winning-over-illicit-consumers-survey-suggests/ https://mjbizdaily.com/canadas-legal-cannabis-market-winning...

__s 3y ago
That also matches my experience I know people who cynically assumed legal weed would be overpriced & low quality. Figured they'd stick with their dealer. Now they just buy legal Say what you want about cost of regulation. Running illegal operations has its costs & inefficiencies too

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

14 3y ago

There are definitely struggles on both sides of the matter. Regulated sellers have the worst expensive low potency weed. Black market producers can no longer sell at a high premium. The government made these rules knowing it would perpetuate the black market. People want to see the weed they are buying yet sanctioned stores have to have all their products in packaging you can not see through. Edibles have to be of such low potency it is laughable. They stores are selling weed that is 9+ months old. So many issues. Black market guy just selling high quality weed he smokes himself so no he doesn’t put any crazy pesticides or things like that into it. Has to make one wonder why the government made these rules when they serve no purpose other than making a black market viable. But again the struggle is on both sides gone are the days of $2500 a pound. It’s way down.

lotsoweiners 3y ago
> Edibles have to be of such low potency it is laughable. I must be a lightweight because just about every edible I take knocks me on my ass. They certainly seem more potent than the flower I get at the dispensaries in my area.

fbdab103 3y ago

There was a Planet Money story[0] about how legal growers are struggling because there is too much competition from not enough buyers. Maybe black market competition is to blame, but I would love to see some hard numbers on where the majority of purchases are made. My knee jerk reaction is to believe that most people are lazy and will pay for the convenience of a brightly lit store front instead of locating their local dealer. Choice quote from the article: There are just over four million people in Oregon, and so far this year, farmers have grown 8.8 million pounds of weed. Which means there's nearly a pound of dried, smokable weed for every single person in the state of Oregon. As a result, the sales price for legal marijuana in the last couple of years has plummeted. [0] https://www.npr.org/2023/11/29/1197955821/marijuana-state-federal-laws-trade https://www.npr.org/2023/11/29/1197955821/marijuana-state-fe...

o11c 3y ago
Maybe it's also that, now that there's no longer a taboo, more people are realizing how outright obnoxious smoking weed is? It seems worse than tobacco ever was, but that's probably a result of poor memory.
- hackernewds 3y ago
  seems very unlikely. ease of access proliferates use especially of addictive behaviors and vices, not the prohibitive-ness
Arch485 3y ago
The cannabis black market in Canada is actually _more_ convenient than the legalized stores. Not far from where I live, there are _tons_ of illegal/unregulated dispensaries. In many cases, the only tipoff you get that these aren't regulated is the low prices. They outperform legal dispensaries in every way: no purchase limits, lower prices, you can buy your cigs + vape pens + cannabis all in one place, they basically never ID people, etc. People who use cannabis are strongly incentivised to buy the illegal stuff, because the regulated market is too draconian and expensive.