4 ms·

New calif highway surveillance uses more than cameras

36 points by mistrial9 3y ago

smcin 3y ago
> The highway patrol recently contracted Flock Safety to install the cameras, which appear to use a wide array of high-tech features that go beyond simply reading motorists’ license plates. The cameras feature “improved vehicle recognition” that allows officers to search for vehicles by several identifying categories, including their “type, make, color, license plate state, missing/covered plates,” as well as bumper stickers, decals and roof racks, according to the governor’s announcement. The camera system also can provide real-time alerts when a vehicle sought by officers is spotted. Some previous mentions of Flock Safety's camera networks: [0]: ‘Talon,’ the Nationwide Network of AI-Enabled Surveillance Cameras https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26330370 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26330370 [1]: AI licenseplate surveillance startup installed 100s of cameras with o permission https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39545522 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39545522
- jauntywundrkind 3y ago
  Turns out all Flock needed to do was ask the police for permission, and now they can have ai cameras monitoring the world. The "didn't ask permission" aspect was not at all hard to remedy; the local elements of the state are more than encouraging about AI powered mass surveillance at a very fine fine level. Will Flock be able to use this data themselves? Will they be allowed to sell this data to others? At what level? How much will they charge me to track a red Nissan with roof racks all day for a day? Just two weeks ago a federal court gave copsa thumbs up on installing a camera watching someone's home & comings & goings, for 68 days straight. And here the state is watching the entire city at once. The availability of these capabilities is so remarkably high, and it's hard to imagine how democracy gets a say in reconciling these new powers of the state. Meanwhile the courts are happily making more room than ever for the state. https://qz.com/feds-can-film-your-front-porch-without-warrant-1851353866 https://qz.com/feds-can-film-your-front-porch-without-warran...
- everybodyknows 3y ago
  > missing/covered plates Here in CA, I routinely see illegible plates covered with smoky grey plastic. Don't understand why these apparently are not promptly pulled over by the cops, with the owners fined enough hundreds of dollars to permanently effect better behavior. No high-tech needed. But then, politicos do love their science fair projects ...
  - seattle_spring 3y ago
    I’ve always wondered that too. A lot of people will claim that “it’s their right” to not be recognized by surveillance and that’s why they use those covers, but seems a lot more likely that they don’t want take responsibility if they get in an accident that they can slip out of without being identified.
    - brewdad 3y ago
      I think a lot of drivers view speeding and extending yellow lights as a bit of a cat and mouse game. As Carlin once said “Cop didn’t see it? I didn’t do it.” Red light and speed cameras give police too much advantage in this “game” so they seek to take their own advantage.
    - pavel_lishin 3y ago
      They're also great for running tolls. I don't feel great about toll roads, personally, but I do feel that if you're using a license plate contraption to dodge tolls, your car should be crushed into a cube while you watch.
    - mike_d 3y ago
      I now have a Flock camera at both ends of my street. There is no way for me to come or go from my own house without the government having a record of it. Unfortunately installing a smoke cover on my plate and waiting to get pulled over and issued a ticket is the only real way to kick off a 4th amendment challenge.
      - salawat 3y ago
ungreased0675 3y ago
I’m not sure people appreciate how technologies like this can be abused. It’s not just the cameras, it’s the fusion and analysis of all that data leading to a loss of privacy.
KennyBlanken 3y ago
"We wanted to make sure all the work our team had done with the (city’s) privacy commission aligned with what Gov. Newsom and Attorney General Rob Bonta were planning — and they were receptive,” Hanson said." That's a bit odd, given that Flock specifically markets its nationwide network to LEO agencies - ie you can be in East Nowhere, Iowa and query a plate and see data from the entire network.
- y-curious 3y ago
  Not to mention the government's poor handling of database security. The fusion of your point and mine are scary
yazzku 3y ago
Gavin Newsom needs to go down fast. Let's put cameras in his bedroom to keep him honest too. No need to criminalize every single citizen.
zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
Reminds me of this https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/surveillance-system-or-public-safety-tool-seattle-dismantles-controversial-wireless-mesh-network/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/surveillance-syste...
Mrabbb 3y ago
They state that the goal is to reduce crime on the freeway. Let's move the problem but monitor everybody.
yazzku 3y ago
“This new camera network will help us stop crime and hold more suspects accountable,” Thao’s statement said. Indeed, the Mayor wants to hold all suspects accountable. Then the next step is making everybody a suspect.
- brokenmachine 3y ago
  Very interesting Freudian slip, isn't it? Suspects or Criminals? Insert Theyre_the_same_picture.jpg meme here.
_8j50 3y ago
It has to be palantir behind the analysis software right?
bevekspldnw 3y ago
The problem in Oakland isn’t a lack of knowing who committed a crime, it’s that the DA isn’t charging anybody with crimes, and letting everybody walk. She’s also facing a recall, but these cameras solve a problem that doesn’t exist.

36 points by mistrial9 3y ago

> The highway patrol recently contracted Flock Safety to install the cameras, which appear to use a wide array of high-tech features that go beyond simply reading motorists’ license plates. The cameras feature “improved vehicle recognition” that allows officers to search for vehicles by several identifying categories, including their “type, make, color, license plate state, missing/covered plates,” as well as bumper stickers, decals and roof racks, according to the governor’s announcement. The camera system also can provide real-time alerts when a vehicle sought by officers is spotted. Some previous mentions of Flock Safety's camera networks: [0]: ‘Talon,’ the Nationwide Network of AI-Enabled Surveillance Cameras https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26330370 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26330370 [1]: AI licenseplate surveillance startup installed 100s of cameras with o permission https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39545522 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39545522

jauntywundrkind 3y ago
Turns out all Flock needed to do was ask the police for permission, and now they can have ai cameras monitoring the world. The "didn't ask permission" aspect was not at all hard to remedy; the local elements of the state are more than encouraging about AI powered mass surveillance at a very fine fine level. Will Flock be able to use this data themselves? Will they be allowed to sell this data to others? At what level? How much will they charge me to track a red Nissan with roof racks all day for a day? Just two weeks ago a federal court gave copsa thumbs up on installing a camera watching someone's home & comings & goings, for 68 days straight. And here the state is watching the entire city at once. The availability of these capabilities is so remarkably high, and it's hard to imagine how democracy gets a say in reconciling these new powers of the state. Meanwhile the courts are happily making more room than ever for the state. https://qz.com/feds-can-film-your-front-porch-without-warrant-1851353866 https://qz.com/feds-can-film-your-front-porch-without-warran...
everybodyknows 3y ago
> missing/covered plates Here in CA, I routinely see illegible plates covered with smoky grey plastic. Don't understand why these apparently are not promptly pulled over by the cops, with the owners fined enough hundreds of dollars to permanently effect better behavior. No high-tech needed. But then, politicos do love their science fair projects ...
- seattle_spring 3y ago
  I’ve always wondered that too. A lot of people will claim that “it’s their right” to not be recognized by surveillance and that’s why they use those covers, but seems a lot more likely that they don’t want take responsibility if they get in an accident that they can slip out of without being identified.
  - brewdad 3y ago
    I think a lot of drivers view speeding and extending yellow lights as a bit of a cat and mouse game. As Carlin once said “Cop didn’t see it? I didn’t do it.” Red light and speed cameras give police too much advantage in this “game” so they seek to take their own advantage.
  - pavel_lishin 3y ago
    They're also great for running tolls. I don't feel great about toll roads, personally, but I do feel that if you're using a license plate contraption to dodge tolls, your car should be crushed into a cube while you watch.
  - mike_d 3y ago
    I now have a Flock camera at both ends of my street. There is no way for me to come or go from my own house without the government having a record of it. Unfortunately installing a smoke cover on my plate and waiting to get pulled over and issued a ticket is the only real way to kick off a 4th amendment challenge.
    - salawat 3y ago

ungreased0675 3y ago

I’m not sure people appreciate how technologies like this can be abused. It’s not just the cameras, it’s the fusion and analysis of all that data leading to a loss of privacy.

KennyBlanken 3y ago

"We wanted to make sure all the work our team had done with the (city’s) privacy commission aligned with what Gov. Newsom and Attorney General Rob Bonta were planning — and they were receptive,” Hanson said." That's a bit odd, given that Flock specifically markets its nationwide network to LEO agencies - ie you can be in East Nowhere, Iowa and query a plate and see data from the entire network.

y-curious 3y ago
Not to mention the government's poor handling of database security. The fusion of your point and mine are scary

yazzku 3y ago

Gavin Newsom needs to go down fast. Let's put cameras in his bedroom to keep him honest too. No need to criminalize every single citizen.

zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago

Reminds me of this https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/surveillance-system-or-public-safety-tool-seattle-dismantles-controversial-wireless-mesh-network/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/surveillance-syste...

Mrabbb 3y ago

They state that the goal is to reduce crime on the freeway. Let's move the problem but monitor everybody.

yazzku 3y ago

“This new camera network will help us stop crime and hold more suspects accountable,” Thao’s statement said. Indeed, the Mayor wants to hold all suspects accountable. Then the next step is making everybody a suspect.

brokenmachine 3y ago
Very interesting Freudian slip, isn't it? Suspects or Criminals? Insert Theyre_the_same_picture.jpg meme here.

_8j50 3y ago

It has to be palantir behind the analysis software right?

bevekspldnw 3y ago

The problem in Oakland isn’t a lack of knowing who committed a crime, it’s that the DA isn’t charging anybody with crimes, and letting everybody walk. She’s also facing a recall, but these cameras solve a problem that doesn’t exist.