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This should be the final word on the issue. Please don't comment about how your X desktop is fine, or how Wayland doesn't work for your obscure, niche little us

This should be the final word on the issue. Please don't comment about how your X desktop is fine, or how Wayland doesn't work for your obscure, niche little use case. If X isn't broken already for you, it will soon be broken, not least by some "here's a quarter, go buy yourself a real window system" patch that lands in critical user space or even kernel components or libraries. Ex.: the Asahi Linux video driver simply dies if it detects that it's being called from X, because neither marcan nor Alyssa (who in her early twenties has forgotten more than you know about graphics) can be bothered to support X. So kindly shut the fuck up, use Wayland, and let the adults in the room chart the future for graphics on your Linux system.

Iridescent_ 3y ago
Such a positive, wholesome attitude, really makes me eager to switch. Oh no, actually I cannot be bothered because for now my X desktop is fine.
Filligree 3y ago
You really think “Steam on nvidia” is a obscure, niche use case?
saurik 3y ago
Ok. I guess I will switch when it actually breaks, by which time Wayland will be even better than it is today! Or wait, you want me to switch right now? Because... I guess it hurts your feelings somehow that it hasn't broken for me yet? And you are upset that my desktop works fine, and feel a need to scream at me to use the software you are a fan of? Huh.
- bitwize 3y ago
  Because as long there's a significant "X is fine, why switch?" user base, it will hold back the apps, toolkits, and libraries, many of whose maintainers desperately want to remove the X11 code paths and get on with something modern. We need everybody going all-in on Wayland in order for there to be progress on the modern desktop. Having that crufty old support for an effectively unmaintained display server kicking around is wasting developer effort.
sebtron 3y ago
I use Linux because I can choose what tools to use. If I wanted to be forced to switch to the shiny new thing whenever "the adults in the room" want me to, I'll be using Windows. So yeah I can shut the fuck up, but I am also not going to listen :)
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  > If I wanted to be forced to switch to the shiny new thing whenever "the adults in the room" want me to, I'll be using Windows. Well, maybe macOS; we're not animals ;)
loeg 3y ago
X just works for end users, and "fuck you" attitudes aren't exactly persuasive (they're actually off-putting from trying Wayland).
- bitwize 3y ago
  Can you do seamless fractional scaling across multiple displays with X? No, you can't. Can you do HDR in X? No, you can't.
bee_rider 3y ago
My X desktop is fine. I get that you are being performatively rude… well, I don’t know why, maybe as a rhetorical device or maybe just for fun. However, in the context provided by the article: > One major thing to note about Wayland is the lack of accessibility software for it your comment > Please don't comment about how your X desktop is fine, or how Wayland doesn't work for your obscure, niche little use case. is actually super shitty, you are being a bad person here. Not in a fun, silly trolling way, but in a telling people with accessibility issues that they don’t matter way.
fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
This is exactly the attitude that makes me never want to use Wayland: I like being able to run Icewm, Stumpwm, WindowMaker and all sorts of other X window managers that haven’t been updated in years. The Wayland attitude of “we’re just dumping all your favorite stuff in the garbage because we’re the adults in the room” is the antithesis of all the things I liked about Linux (not to mention going from a system shaded by *BSDs and Illumos to a Linux-proprietary system)
- bitwize 3y ago
  Wayland is a protocol. Nothing intrinsic about Linux to it. If the BSDs and Illumos are dragging their feet getting on board, that's the BSDs and Illumos' problem.
pitust2 3y ago
Can you show a source for this claim? There exists this codepath in adp_open: int adp_open(struct inode *inode, struct file *filp) { if (current->comm[0] == 'X') return -EBUSY; return drm_open(inode, filp); } but: (a) You know what "adp" stands for? It stands for Apple Display Pipe, or the touchbar. (b) Back when I was dailydriving asahi, I actually had to patch that to check for 's' instead of 'X', because sway dies on this exact thing too.

Iridescent_ 3y ago

Such a positive, wholesome attitude, really makes me eager to switch. Oh no, actually I cannot be bothered because for now my X desktop is fine.

Filligree 3y ago

You really think “Steam on nvidia” is a obscure, niche use case?

saurik 3y ago

Ok. I guess I will switch when it actually breaks, by which time Wayland will be even better than it is today! Or wait, you want me to switch right now? Because... I guess it hurts your feelings somehow that it hasn't broken for me yet? And you are upset that my desktop works fine, and feel a need to scream at me to use the software you are a fan of? Huh.

bitwize 3y ago
Because as long there's a significant "X is fine, why switch?" user base, it will hold back the apps, toolkits, and libraries, many of whose maintainers desperately want to remove the X11 code paths and get on with something modern. We need everybody going all-in on Wayland in order for there to be progress on the modern desktop. Having that crufty old support for an effectively unmaintained display server kicking around is wasting developer effort.

sebtron 3y ago

I use Linux because I can choose what tools to use. If I wanted to be forced to switch to the shiny new thing whenever "the adults in the room" want me to, I'll be using Windows. So yeah I can shut the fuck up, but I am also not going to listen :)

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
> If I wanted to be forced to switch to the shiny new thing whenever "the adults in the room" want me to, I'll be using Windows. Well, maybe macOS; we're not animals ;)

loeg 3y ago

X just works for end users, and "fuck you" attitudes aren't exactly persuasive (they're actually off-putting from trying Wayland).

bitwize 3y ago
Can you do seamless fractional scaling across multiple displays with X? No, you can't. Can you do HDR in X? No, you can't.

bee_rider 3y ago

My X desktop is fine. I get that you are being performatively rude… well, I don’t know why, maybe as a rhetorical device or maybe just for fun. However, in the context provided by the article: > One major thing to note about Wayland is the lack of accessibility software for it your comment > Please don't comment about how your X desktop is fine, or how Wayland doesn't work for your obscure, niche little use case. is actually super shitty, you are being a bad person here. Not in a fun, silly trolling way, but in a telling people with accessibility issues that they don’t matter way.

fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago

This is exactly the attitude that makes me never want to use Wayland: I like being able to run Icewm, Stumpwm, WindowMaker and all sorts of other X window managers that haven’t been updated in years. The Wayland attitude of “we’re just dumping all your favorite stuff in the garbage because we’re the adults in the room” is the antithesis of all the things I liked about Linux (not to mention going from a system shaded by *BSDs and Illumos to a Linux-proprietary system)

bitwize 3y ago
Wayland is a protocol. Nothing intrinsic about Linux to it. If the BSDs and Illumos are dragging their feet getting on board, that's the BSDs and Illumos' problem.

pitust2 3y ago

Can you show a source for this claim? There exists this codepath in adp_open: int adp_open(struct inode *inode, struct file *filp) { if (current->comm[0] == 'X') return -EBUSY; return drm_open(inode, filp); } but: (a) You know what "adp" stands for? It stands for Apple Display Pipe, or the touchbar. (b) Back when I was dailydriving asahi, I actually had to patch that to check for 's' instead of 'X', because sway dies on this exact thing too.