3 ms·

Suburbs have been a thing decades longer than smartphones. With the exception of helicopter parenting, nothing's changed with options available for kids to play

by speff 3y ago

Suburbs have been a thing decades longer than smartphones. With the exception of helicopter parenting, nothing's changed with options available for kids to play outside. Smartphones altered the meaning of "interesting things to do" to exclude everything that doesn't give a constant dopamine hit every couple seconds. Maybe people should detox and learn to live life without constantly needing something interesting.

bilegeek 3y ago
Tl;dr: Suburbs have changed even since the 80's, primarily sociologically but also architecturally, and combined with wider changes in overall culture has made alternatives to the internet less and less practical. Another jumping-off point: https://www.techdirt.com/2024/01/05/utah-governor-absolutely-positive-that-social-media-harms-kids-despite-study-after-study-after-study-after-study-after-study-saying-hes-wrong/ https://www.techdirt.com/2024/01/05/utah-governor-absolutely... ~~~~~ As previously commented on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39259629 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39259629 >let yourself spend less time and energy on your kids >The fact of the matter is the world is a safer >and more prosperous place than ever before. Sadly, it's often not even a matter of safety from "danger", but safety from the law. Getting CPS called on you[1][2], or getting arrested[3][4] as a parent is not good, even if you are fortunate enough to win. Then there's the whole angle of disappearing third places, lack of places that can be reasonably visited without driving privileges, nobody's outside because of all of the above so there's nobody to "hang out" or "play" with, desire to funnel kids/teens into more "productive" activities like academics and sports (depending on affluence and interest, this isn't AS bad as the above points), places outright banning[5] young people, etc etc. [1]https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/09/05/mom-parenting-police-free-range-neglect-children-column/1156144002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/09/05/mom... [2]https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/13/living/feat-maryland-free-range-parenting-family-under-investigation-again/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/13/living/feat-maryland-free-ran... [3]https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/07/arrested-for-letting-a-9-year-old-play-at-the-park-alone/374436/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/07/arreste... [4]https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-mom-accused-of-leaving-kids-at-food-court-during-job-interview/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-mom-accused-of-leaving-ki... [5]https://www.businessinsider.com/teen-bans-curfews-malls-theme-parks-chick-fil-a-2023-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/teen-bans-curfews-malls-them...
- dingnuts 3y ago
  I see kids outside playing in the street and in yards and in my neighborhood park all the time. What suburbs are you folks choosing to live in? also some of your examples, like the CNN article about Maryland, seem like they may be targeted harassment from CPS against parents who they dislike for other reasons. the article is also nine years old -- why didn't you post something about how that story ended? > In June 2015, Maryland officials clarified their views about children playing or walking alone outdoors in a new policy directive, saying Child Protective Services should not be involved in such cases unless children have been harmed or face a substantial risk of harm.[3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meitiv_incidents https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meitiv_incidents The investigation went nowhere. So who cares? this is an isolated incident that caused a set of parents to have a single bad encounter with police. surely that's a problem with police more than anything? I don't understand the motivation for posting misleading links like this
ok_dad 3y ago
When I was a kid just a few decades ago there were several things within my available area like arcades, mini golf, a small hill to play on, etc. today in that same area there is zero kids friendly entertainment except a theater that’s too expensive and the small hill was closed to the public by the HOA for legal reasons. Where are the kids supposed to go? It’s not an imaginary thing happening, 3rd spaces are drying up for kids and adults alike.
- speff 3y ago
  What? Literally anywhere outside - are you saying most kids back then hung out at arcades and minigolf regularly in their free time? We couldn't afford that. I remember playing at the hill you're talking about - or a park - or just throwing a ball against a wall with friends when I was in the city. Also who cares if the HOA shut down that hill? Are they patrolling it? Why would the kids care about that?
  - ok_dad 3y ago
    Did you read where I said the outside has been closed for legal reasons? In my area that was the only outside park available. It has a fence around it and are you just suggesting kids go get themselves arrested or perhaps worse for trespassing? I guess all is well as long as kids have a wall to bounce a ball off of!
    - speff 3y ago
      The outside is more than that park or hill that was closed. Unless it's illegal just for kids to be outside, in which case I'd say yea that's unfortunate - but it's not the norm. Also arrested or worse for trespassing on a hill? Please. The worse they'd get is a lecture by the cops the first time.
      - ok_dad 3y ago
        Where I grew up the outside is either a a park or a vast desert with pavement everywhere and heat that literally kills several people a year. Kids had the park or nothing, but now it’s literally nothing in that area. It’s sad that people like you can’t believe the actual lived experience of someone else, as if your life is how everyone experiences the world and growing up. Not every urban area is the same. Not every rural area is the same.
AtlasBarfed 3y ago
The key thing that died pre-smartphone was kids leaving the house and playing outside. Game consoles, cable TV, and computers all probably contributed to that, but so did the great crime paranoia of the 80s/90s.
ijustlovemath 3y ago
Hard to do that when you're fighting against billions of dollars and the world's best engineers who are doing everything they can to keep you as a daily active user!
- speff 3y ago
  Fair point - it's definitely not easy
jchw 3y ago
Maybe I've just grown to be a cynical ass, but I don't think it's just kids, even me and my adult friends lament how it feels like there's really not that much interesting to do outside of the home, and I am far from attached to a smartphone; often times I don't even bring a phone with me when I leave the house. The vast majority of the businesses in these parts are places where you either eat, or buy groceries. There used to be video rental stores everywhere, now they're rare. The malls are dead, the arcades are gone, the electronics stores are wiped out. When I was in California, I watched Fry's completely die over the course of a few years; I wonder how many nerds met lifelong friends just kind of hanging around places like Fry's. Political polarization has harmed social interaction in the meatspace, too. I really generally don't mind or think about political affiliation if it's not relevant, but if I walk into a building and it either feels like I've entered a Trump rally or it's plastered in performative wokeness crap, I'm just going to want to leave, because politics aside, at best it just feels cliché and begging for negative attention, and I'm probably going to find the kind of people who like this environment to be insufferable. Nowadays, I surprisingly often just see groups of kids aimlessly wandering grocery stores at night, seemingly not interested in actually buying anything, just kind of walking and talking. If it's because they don't know what else to do, I sincerely can't blame them, I don't even know what to do.
lotsoweiners 3y ago
> Maybe people should detox and learn to live life without constantly needing something interesting. Yeah I think this is it and not the kids should be outdoors argument. If I were a kid today I’d be on my device all of the time. When I was young I sat around watching Night Court, Three’s Company, and Saved By the Bell reruns in syndication. I would have loved access to Roblox, Minecraft, and YouTube. I could have been outside (and sometimes I was) but I usually preferred to just veg out. Now my kids enjoy hanging around on their iPads and have a lot more options of things to do on those devices but they can’t just sit and stare at a wall like I did when I was young.

by speff 3y ago

bilegeek 3y ago

Tl;dr: Suburbs have changed even since the 80's, primarily sociologically but also architecturally, and combined with wider changes in overall culture has made alternatives to the internet less and less practical. Another jumping-off point: https://www.techdirt.com/2024/01/05/utah-governor-absolutely-positive-that-social-media-harms-kids-despite-study-after-study-after-study-after-study-after-study-saying-hes-wrong/ https://www.techdirt.com/2024/01/05/utah-governor-absolutely... ~~~~~ As previously commented on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39259629 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39259629 >let yourself spend less time and energy on your kids >The fact of the matter is the world is a safer >and more prosperous place than ever before. Sadly, it's often not even a matter of safety from "danger", but safety from the law. Getting CPS called on you[1][2], or getting arrested[3][4] as a parent is not good, even if you are fortunate enough to win. Then there's the whole angle of disappearing third places, lack of places that can be reasonably visited without driving privileges, nobody's outside because of all of the above so there's nobody to "hang out" or "play" with, desire to funnel kids/teens into more "productive" activities like academics and sports (depending on affluence and interest, this isn't AS bad as the above points), places outright banning[5] young people, etc etc. [1]https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/09/05/mom-parenting-police-free-range-neglect-children-column/1156144002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/09/05/mom... [2]https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/13/living/feat-maryland-free-range-parenting-family-under-investigation-again/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/13/living/feat-maryland-free-ran... [3]https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/07/arrested-for-letting-a-9-year-old-play-at-the-park-alone/374436/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/07/arreste... [4]https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-mom-accused-of-leaving-kids-at-food-court-during-job-interview/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-mom-accused-of-leaving-ki... [5]https://www.businessinsider.com/teen-bans-curfews-malls-theme-parks-chick-fil-a-2023-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/teen-bans-curfews-malls-them...

dingnuts 3y ago
I see kids outside playing in the street and in yards and in my neighborhood park all the time. What suburbs are you folks choosing to live in? also some of your examples, like the CNN article about Maryland, seem like they may be targeted harassment from CPS against parents who they dislike for other reasons. the article is also nine years old -- why didn't you post something about how that story ended? > In June 2015, Maryland officials clarified their views about children playing or walking alone outdoors in a new policy directive, saying Child Protective Services should not be involved in such cases unless children have been harmed or face a substantial risk of harm.[3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meitiv_incidents https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meitiv_incidents The investigation went nowhere. So who cares? this is an isolated incident that caused a set of parents to have a single bad encounter with police. surely that's a problem with police more than anything? I don't understand the motivation for posting misleading links like this

ok_dad 3y ago

When I was a kid just a few decades ago there were several things within my available area like arcades, mini golf, a small hill to play on, etc. today in that same area there is zero kids friendly entertainment except a theater that’s too expensive and the small hill was closed to the public by the HOA for legal reasons. Where are the kids supposed to go? It’s not an imaginary thing happening, 3rd spaces are drying up for kids and adults alike.

speff 3y ago
What? Literally anywhere outside - are you saying most kids back then hung out at arcades and minigolf regularly in their free time? We couldn't afford that. I remember playing at the hill you're talking about - or a park - or just throwing a ball against a wall with friends when I was in the city. Also who cares if the HOA shut down that hill? Are they patrolling it? Why would the kids care about that?
- ok_dad 3y ago
  Did you read where I said the outside has been closed for legal reasons? In my area that was the only outside park available. It has a fence around it and are you just suggesting kids go get themselves arrested or perhaps worse for trespassing? I guess all is well as long as kids have a wall to bounce a ball off of!
  - speff 3y ago
    The outside is more than that park or hill that was closed. Unless it's illegal just for kids to be outside, in which case I'd say yea that's unfortunate - but it's not the norm. Also arrested or worse for trespassing on a hill? Please. The worse they'd get is a lecture by the cops the first time.
    - ok_dad 3y ago
      Where I grew up the outside is either a a park or a vast desert with pavement everywhere and heat that literally kills several people a year. Kids had the park or nothing, but now it’s literally nothing in that area. It’s sad that people like you can’t believe the actual lived experience of someone else, as if your life is how everyone experiences the world and growing up. Not every urban area is the same. Not every rural area is the same.

AtlasBarfed 3y ago

The key thing that died pre-smartphone was kids leaving the house and playing outside. Game consoles, cable TV, and computers all probably contributed to that, but so did the great crime paranoia of the 80s/90s.

ijustlovemath 3y ago

Hard to do that when you're fighting against billions of dollars and the world's best engineers who are doing everything they can to keep you as a daily active user!

speff 3y ago
Fair point - it's definitely not easy

jchw 3y ago

Maybe I've just grown to be a cynical ass, but I don't think it's just kids, even me and my adult friends lament how it feels like there's really not that much interesting to do outside of the home, and I am far from attached to a smartphone; often times I don't even bring a phone with me when I leave the house. The vast majority of the businesses in these parts are places where you either eat, or buy groceries. There used to be video rental stores everywhere, now they're rare. The malls are dead, the arcades are gone, the electronics stores are wiped out. When I was in California, I watched Fry's completely die over the course of a few years; I wonder how many nerds met lifelong friends just kind of hanging around places like Fry's. Political polarization has harmed social interaction in the meatspace, too. I really generally don't mind or think about political affiliation if it's not relevant, but if I walk into a building and it either feels like I've entered a Trump rally or it's plastered in performative wokeness crap, I'm just going to want to leave, because politics aside, at best it just feels cliché and begging for negative attention, and I'm probably going to find the kind of people who like this environment to be insufferable. Nowadays, I surprisingly often just see groups of kids aimlessly wandering grocery stores at night, seemingly not interested in actually buying anything, just kind of walking and talking. If it's because they don't know what else to do, I sincerely can't blame them, I don't even know what to do.

lotsoweiners 3y ago

> Maybe people should detox and learn to live life without constantly needing something interesting. Yeah I think this is it and not the kids should be outdoors argument. If I were a kid today I’d be on my device all of the time. When I was young I sat around watching Night Court, Three’s Company, and Saved By the Bell reruns in syndication. I would have loved access to Roblox, Minecraft, and YouTube. I could have been outside (and sometimes I was) but I usually preferred to just veg out. Now my kids enjoy hanging around on their iPads and have a lot more options of things to do on those devices but they can’t just sit and stare at a wall like I did when I was young.