5 ms·

At the expense of other families not a party to the monopoly.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
> At the expense of other families not a party to the monopoly. Corporate profits are unpaid wages. Non union workers can organize, it is a choice. Otherwise, continue being economically impaired by corporate shareholder and management actors on your own time. If you don’t organize against corporations, they would extract until there is nothing left (broadly speaking, some companies don’t embody this ethos, but many do). Union support is highest amongst Gen Z, so you’re just waiting for older conservatives and anti union folks to age out for the pendulum to swing back from the damage Reagan did. 1.8M voters age 55+ age out every year, half of those folks are still in labor force participation, while 4M voters turn 18 ever year. It’s a demographics and electorate turnover story more than anything (trajectory + time horizon). https://www.marketplace.org/2023/01/03/gen-z-is-the-most-pro-union-generation/ https://www.marketplace.org/2023/01/03/gen-z-is-the-most-pro... (“Marketplace: Gen Z is the most pro-union generation”)
- redeeman 3y ago
  > Corporate profits are unpaid wages. what about corporate losses then?
  - tekno45 3y ago
    They're not reasons for a CEO to get a multi million exit package.
  - blargey 3y ago
    Layoffs, pay freezes, cuts to wages/bonus/raises, etc?
  - harimau777 3y ago
    A lot of leftist argue for worker owned businesses. Wouldn't that mean that losses would effectively be owned by the workers?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - CuriousCosmic 3y ago
      What do you think happens when a company is losing money? It's not like the shareholders are just eating that loss out of the goodness of their hearts. Instead there are layoffs, cancelled projects, and pay cuts. All of those are workers bearing the cost of the losses.
      - latency-guy2 3y ago
        Are discounts then customers pilfering the pockets of the workers? Combo deals? How consistent is your ideology really?
        CuriousCosmic 3y ago
        > Are discounts then customers pilfering the pockets of the workers? Combo deals? No. That's marketing. Marketing is a strategy used to help turn a profit. Giving away that profit to shareholders makes absolutely no contribution to the ability of a business to turn a profit. Those aren't remotely close to similar.
    - kentrado 3y ago
      And what's wrong with that?
CapstanRoller 3y ago
[flagged]
mullingitover 3y ago
Unions: join us, let's increase our bargaining power together and improve all our economic situations. Anti-union workers: No. Also anti-union workers: Look at these union workers making more money than us, at our expense.
- devwastaken 3y ago
  That's not a contradiction. Unions can and often do become just as dysfunctional as any other kind of government. People abuse their power and force out those that won't go along with it.
  - avvvv 3y ago
    So do companies. What's your point?
malermeister 3y ago
I'm sorry you're choosing to let corporations exploit you instead of fighting with us for better wages. But that's kind of on you, not on us.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- washadjeffmad 3y ago
  People can have bad individual experiences with unions. A not very pro-union friend ("They're not all good, you know.") told me about her early career as a typesetter, how she taught herself how to repair the linotypes and letterpresses, the difficulties after unionization, and their shop's eventual shuttering. She felt that the union had taken things over and then failed them. When I asked her how the hell non-computerized typesetting was even still a job in the 80s, she looked kind of thoughtful for a minute and just said "huh".
  - cityofdelusion 3y ago
    The world is shades of grey, not black and white. My only experience with union work is as a non-union developer brought in to fix the software of union government developers. They were legitimately terrible at their jobs, unable to code anything or be useful outside of QA work. I made significantly more money than their capped government salaries as well. The flip side is their job, healthcare, and families were much more secure than mine. I’m fine with people being lifted up, but it’s very frustrating when your coworkers carry no burden and do nothing. I have no idea about other industry, but in government it’s so hard to let people go that no one bothers to even start the paperwork, they just hire non-union contractors to do the actual labor. Worst of all worlds. This is average middle America, not a tech hub in any way. I’m a fairly average dev.

> At the expense of other families not a party to the monopoly. Corporate profits are unpaid wages. Non union workers can organize, it is a choice. Otherwise, continue being economically impaired by corporate shareholder and management actors on your own time. If you don’t organize against corporations, they would extract until there is nothing left (broadly speaking, some companies don’t embody this ethos, but many do). Union support is highest amongst Gen Z, so you’re just waiting for older conservatives and anti union folks to age out for the pendulum to swing back from the damage Reagan did. 1.8M voters age 55+ age out every year, half of those folks are still in labor force participation, while 4M voters turn 18 ever year. It’s a demographics and electorate turnover story more than anything (trajectory + time horizon). https://www.marketplace.org/2023/01/03/gen-z-is-the-most-pro-union-generation/ https://www.marketplace.org/2023/01/03/gen-z-is-the-most-pro... (“Marketplace: Gen Z is the most pro-union generation”)

redeeman 3y ago
> Corporate profits are unpaid wages. what about corporate losses then?
- tekno45 3y ago
  They're not reasons for a CEO to get a multi million exit package.
- blargey 3y ago
  Layoffs, pay freezes, cuts to wages/bonus/raises, etc?
- harimau777 3y ago
  A lot of leftist argue for worker owned businesses. Wouldn't that mean that losses would effectively be owned by the workers?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - CuriousCosmic 3y ago
    What do you think happens when a company is losing money? It's not like the shareholders are just eating that loss out of the goodness of their hearts. Instead there are layoffs, cancelled projects, and pay cuts. All of those are workers bearing the cost of the losses.
    - latency-guy2 3y ago
      Are discounts then customers pilfering the pockets of the workers? Combo deals? How consistent is your ideology really?
      - CuriousCosmic 3y ago
        > Are discounts then customers pilfering the pockets of the workers? Combo deals? No. That's marketing. Marketing is a strategy used to help turn a profit. Giving away that profit to shareholders makes absolutely no contribution to the ability of a business to turn a profit. Those aren't remotely close to similar.
  - kentrado 3y ago
    And what's wrong with that?

CapstanRoller 3y ago

[flagged]

mullingitover 3y ago

Unions: join us, let's increase our bargaining power together and improve all our economic situations. Anti-union workers: No. Also anti-union workers: Look at these union workers making more money than us, at our expense.

devwastaken 3y ago
That's not a contradiction. Unions can and often do become just as dysfunctional as any other kind of government. People abuse their power and force out those that won't go along with it.
- avvvv 3y ago
  So do companies. What's your point?

malermeister 3y ago

I'm sorry you're choosing to let corporations exploit you instead of fighting with us for better wages. But that's kind of on you, not on us.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
washadjeffmad 3y ago
People can have bad individual experiences with unions. A not very pro-union friend ("They're not all good, you know.") told me about her early career as a typesetter, how she taught herself how to repair the linotypes and letterpresses, the difficulties after unionization, and their shop's eventual shuttering. She felt that the union had taken things over and then failed them. When I asked her how the hell non-computerized typesetting was even still a job in the 80s, she looked kind of thoughtful for a minute and just said "huh".
- cityofdelusion 3y ago
  The world is shades of grey, not black and white. My only experience with union work is as a non-union developer brought in to fix the software of union government developers. They were legitimately terrible at their jobs, unable to code anything or be useful outside of QA work. I made significantly more money than their capped government salaries as well. The flip side is their job, healthcare, and families were much more secure than mine. I’m fine with people being lifted up, but it’s very frustrating when your coworkers carry no burden and do nothing. I have no idea about other industry, but in government it’s so hard to let people go that no one bothers to even start the paperwork, they just hire non-union contractors to do the actual labor. Worst of all worlds. This is average middle America, not a tech hub in any way. I’m a fairly average dev.