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Wikipedia has some good coverage on the recent misinformation campaigns about Gaza situation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misinformation_in_the_Israel%E2%80

Wikipedia has some good coverage on the recent misinformation campaigns about Gaza situation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misinformation_in_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misinformation_in_the_Israel...

hereme888 3y ago
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wslh 3y ago
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- talldayo 3y ago
  > This is the case where you need to be in the field > Hamas is a serial liar without independent media while Israel has an independent media that search throughfully This feels like an unnecessary statement intended to gatekeep meaningful journalism. We know that Gazans and Israelites both by-and-large have political agendas to push in the area; and you're suggesting we ignore one in lieu of another? Both sides need to be taken with a hearty grain of salt, and the citizen journalism that both sides attempt to suppress cannot be discounted. Simply stating that a list of information is unreliable isn't an argument against an identified pattern, either. The journalists "in the field" are being decimated right now, and I wouldn't trust the think tanks in Tel Aviv to furnish a superior explanation.
  - wslh 3y ago
    No, I am suggesting to check the record of one against another. Hamas is a terrorist group that used to harm Palestines for their own purposes. Apples vs. oranges. Not forget that they violated women while feminist groups around the world have a big blind spot. This situation makes you think about the state of the humankind. Seems like many others who have not skin in the game also follow their own agendas posing as human rights defenders.
    - talldayo 3y ago
      Why are you so quick to assume I don't have skin in the game? You could be talking to someone with family members that died in the Levant. Instead of unpacking that, I think it's smarter for us to argue on rational merits. I know and do not contest that Hamas is a terrorist group. The suppression of genuine Palestinian suffering as a 'weapon' against Hamas is generating grassroots (and largely justified) skepticism of Israeli news outlets. For many topics, they are just as biased as the 'government' Hamas frontmen that lie out their nose for political support. It's a tragic situation that makes me ashamed to be an American taxpayer the more I hear about it.
      - wslh 3y ago
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        talldayo 3y ago
        They may have been. They live in Lebanon, when they're not being contested by settlers or occupied they're usually trying to maintain their claim to sovereignty same as anyone. It would unfortunately not surprise me to hear if they were threatened throughout October. Regarding being an American citizen, I feel pretty proud that our government is taking a skeptical approach to Netanyahu's leadership. It just pains me that I'm indirectly supporting the same people that are effectively displacing half my family. I do engage with US politics, I don't see the value in petty protests of democracy though.
  - tptacek 3y ago
    I don't think the Hamas-controlled media of Gaza and the Israeli media are comparably transparent. That doesn't mean you should trust "think tanks in Tel Aviv" --- I wouldn't, either! But there is no Haaretz of Gaza; Hamas would not allow such a thing to exist.
    - talldayo 3y ago
      I think their ideologically-driven mouthpieces are comparable. Their treatment of journalism is politically divergent, but both sides are so well-stocked with zealots that I think both can be characterized as a "serial liar" pretty safely. As a person that supports secular politics, both ideologies repulse me. The media I trust most to report on this topic are the people with the least to gain from it, the sort of people the parent might dismiss for not being "in the field" enough.
      - tptacek 3y ago
        I don't think what you're saying is true. I see you as arguing that both sides are equivalently polarized and biased --- seems reasonable! --- but skipping the fact that Hamas has outlawed an opposition press, something Israel has not in fact done.
        talldayo 3y ago
        Which part do you disagree with? Both sides host and support people that will readily lie to defend their own entrenched position. I'll agree any day of the week that Hamas has the more draconian social policy, but that's not an excuse to write off Gazan journalism. Israel's flaw is theocracy, which does not inherently equate them to their enemies but tragically condemns them to a similar path. Their army is stocked with religious adherents and their population is seeded with nationalist migrants. They're bankrolled by a foreign power that ensures their competency but one that doubts their altruism when acting independently. In effect it's a proxy war of chicken, with hundreds of thousands of innocent civilian lives caught in the middle. That part I hate. The only thing I'd be willing to concede is that journalists are being suppressed domestically, even though journalist casualties in Gaza suggest a staggeringly different story. In lieu of direct evidence I'll shelf that, but still contend the rest.

hereme888 3y ago

[flagged]

wslh 3y ago

[flagged]

talldayo 3y ago
> This is the case where you need to be in the field > Hamas is a serial liar without independent media while Israel has an independent media that search throughfully This feels like an unnecessary statement intended to gatekeep meaningful journalism. We know that Gazans and Israelites both by-and-large have political agendas to push in the area; and you're suggesting we ignore one in lieu of another? Both sides need to be taken with a hearty grain of salt, and the citizen journalism that both sides attempt to suppress cannot be discounted. Simply stating that a list of information is unreliable isn't an argument against an identified pattern, either. The journalists "in the field" are being decimated right now, and I wouldn't trust the think tanks in Tel Aviv to furnish a superior explanation.
- wslh 3y ago
  No, I am suggesting to check the record of one against another. Hamas is a terrorist group that used to harm Palestines for their own purposes. Apples vs. oranges. Not forget that they violated women while feminist groups around the world have a big blind spot. This situation makes you think about the state of the humankind. Seems like many others who have not skin in the game also follow their own agendas posing as human rights defenders.
  - talldayo 3y ago
    Why are you so quick to assume I don't have skin in the game? You could be talking to someone with family members that died in the Levant. Instead of unpacking that, I think it's smarter for us to argue on rational merits. I know and do not contest that Hamas is a terrorist group. The suppression of genuine Palestinian suffering as a 'weapon' against Hamas is generating grassroots (and largely justified) skepticism of Israeli news outlets. For many topics, they are just as biased as the 'government' Hamas frontmen that lie out their nose for political support. It's a tragic situation that makes me ashamed to be an American taxpayer the more I hear about it.
    - wslh 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - talldayo 3y ago
        They may have been. They live in Lebanon, when they're not being contested by settlers or occupied they're usually trying to maintain their claim to sovereignty same as anyone. It would unfortunately not surprise me to hear if they were threatened throughout October. Regarding being an American citizen, I feel pretty proud that our government is taking a skeptical approach to Netanyahu's leadership. It just pains me that I'm indirectly supporting the same people that are effectively displacing half my family. I do engage with US politics, I don't see the value in petty protests of democracy though.
- tptacek 3y ago
  I don't think the Hamas-controlled media of Gaza and the Israeli media are comparably transparent. That doesn't mean you should trust "think tanks in Tel Aviv" --- I wouldn't, either! But there is no Haaretz of Gaza; Hamas would not allow such a thing to exist.
  - talldayo 3y ago
    I think their ideologically-driven mouthpieces are comparable. Their treatment of journalism is politically divergent, but both sides are so well-stocked with zealots that I think both can be characterized as a "serial liar" pretty safely. As a person that supports secular politics, both ideologies repulse me. The media I trust most to report on this topic are the people with the least to gain from it, the sort of people the parent might dismiss for not being "in the field" enough.
    - tptacek 3y ago
      I don't think what you're saying is true. I see you as arguing that both sides are equivalently polarized and biased --- seems reasonable! --- but skipping the fact that Hamas has outlawed an opposition press, something Israel has not in fact done.
      - talldayo 3y ago
        Which part do you disagree with? Both sides host and support people that will readily lie to defend their own entrenched position. I'll agree any day of the week that Hamas has the more draconian social policy, but that's not an excuse to write off Gazan journalism. Israel's flaw is theocracy, which does not inherently equate them to their enemies but tragically condemns them to a similar path. Their army is stocked with religious adherents and their population is seeded with nationalist migrants. They're bankrolled by a foreign power that ensures their competency but one that doubts their altruism when acting independently. In effect it's a proxy war of chicken, with hundreds of thousands of innocent civilian lives caught in the middle. That part I hate. The only thing I'd be willing to concede is that journalists are being suppressed domestically, even though journalist casualties in Gaza suggest a staggeringly different story. In lieu of direct evidence I'll shelf that, but still contend the rest.