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There was an article at Forbes that said employees who stay with the company for more than 2 years are underpaid by as much as 50%. So why do they stay for so

There was an article at Forbes that said employees who stay with the company for more than 2 years are underpaid by as much as 50%. So why do they stay for so long? Humans are resistant to change. Speaking of myself, when I was working as a programmer, finding a new job meant going through endless interviews with leetcode tests even though I had 15 years experience. Turns out it was Joel Spolsky who invented that practice. I'm sure most programmers want to strangle that guy. Lol. As for me, I became a contractor. All my underpaid overtime turned into a paid one. Plus my contracts lasted a lot longer than my full time jobs. But even that what I later found out is what they call "trading hours for dollars". In order to really succeed I need to start my own business. Which required me to learn "direct response marketing and copywriting". Because being an Engineer I sucked at selling, finding hungry markets for my products, creating products and selling them by the millions. Once I figured that out, it's like a new world opened up to me. Turns out you can make as much money as you want. Unlimited amounts. It's up to you how much you want to make. I wish I would've figured that out earlier.

thisiszilff 3y ago
> Which required me to learn "direct response marketing and copywriting". How’d you go about getting good at these things?
- jmholla 3y ago
  Not an answer to your question, more bolstering your comment, hoping someone else will come along and be encouraged to answer. Trying to learn about this on the internet is a nauseating series of blogspam. Edit: Although, this particular article doesn't seem so bad: https://mirasee.com/blog/direct-response-copywriting/ https://mirasee.com/blog/direct-response-copywriting/
ore0s 3y ago
Any recent books you suggest on "direct response marketing and copywriting"? I've tried to read "how to win friends and influence people" "ogilvy on advertising" "traction" but haven't taken actions yet.
mooreds 3y ago
I have contracted about 1/2 my career. I love the freedom and the honesty about outcomes and money. I missed the benefits (esp group health insurance) and the sense of teamwork.
- mancerayder 3y ago
  How do you get new contracts without using recruiters, is the million dollar question.
  - mooreds 3y ago
    Wrote more about that here: https://www.mooreds.com/wordpress/archives/3552 https://www.mooreds.com/wordpress/archives/3552
proc0 3y ago
You can only do this so much before you hit the pay ceiling of your role more or less. Then there is also the age factor, which whether it's justified or not the older you get the more expectations there are and the harder it becomes to jump ship. Personally my biggest gripe is how technical careers evolve into non-technical roles because of how companies underestimate the engineering and overestimate people skills. The pay gap would be easier to bridge if yearly reviews were based mostly on technical skill growth instead of other corporate jargon like "impact" or "leadership".
jodrellblank 3y ago
> "Turns out it was Joel Spolsky who invented that practice. I'm sure most programmers want to strangle that guy. Lol." Really? Here's Joel writing about his interviewing technique for software developers, it's a 1 hour interview with the focus on letting the interviewee talk about how smart they are: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/10/25/the-guerrilla-guide-to-interviewing-version-30/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/10/25/the-guerrilla-guid... 1. Introduction 2. Question about recent project candidate worked on 3. Easy Programming Question 4. Pointer/Recursion Question 5. Are you satisfied? [with your whiteboard code answer] 6. Do you have any questions? Has he changed from that in the last 20 years?
avinassh 3y ago
> Turns out it was Joel Spolsky who invented that practice. I'm sure most programmers want to strangle that guy. Lol. Did he though? or did you mean Fizz Buzz? But that was by his friend Jeff Atwood
HumblyTossed 2y ago
> So why do they stay for so long? Sad thing is because it might actually be interesting work.

thisiszilff 3y ago

> Which required me to learn "direct response marketing and copywriting". How’d you go about getting good at these things?

jmholla 3y ago
Not an answer to your question, more bolstering your comment, hoping someone else will come along and be encouraged to answer. Trying to learn about this on the internet is a nauseating series of blogspam. Edit: Although, this particular article doesn't seem so bad: https://mirasee.com/blog/direct-response-copywriting/ https://mirasee.com/blog/direct-response-copywriting/

ore0s 3y ago

Any recent books you suggest on "direct response marketing and copywriting"? I've tried to read "how to win friends and influence people" "ogilvy on advertising" "traction" but haven't taken actions yet.

mooreds 3y ago

I have contracted about 1/2 my career. I love the freedom and the honesty about outcomes and money. I missed the benefits (esp group health insurance) and the sense of teamwork.

mancerayder 3y ago
How do you get new contracts without using recruiters, is the million dollar question.
- mooreds 3y ago
  Wrote more about that here: https://www.mooreds.com/wordpress/archives/3552 https://www.mooreds.com/wordpress/archives/3552

proc0 3y ago

You can only do this so much before you hit the pay ceiling of your role more or less. Then there is also the age factor, which whether it's justified or not the older you get the more expectations there are and the harder it becomes to jump ship. Personally my biggest gripe is how technical careers evolve into non-technical roles because of how companies underestimate the engineering and overestimate people skills. The pay gap would be easier to bridge if yearly reviews were based mostly on technical skill growth instead of other corporate jargon like "impact" or "leadership".

jodrellblank 3y ago

> "Turns out it was Joel Spolsky who invented that practice. I'm sure most programmers want to strangle that guy. Lol." Really? Here's Joel writing about his interviewing technique for software developers, it's a 1 hour interview with the focus on letting the interviewee talk about how smart they are: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/10/25/the-guerrilla-guide-to-interviewing-version-30/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/10/25/the-guerrilla-guid... 1. Introduction 2. Question about recent project candidate worked on 3. Easy Programming Question 4. Pointer/Recursion Question 5. Are you satisfied? [with your whiteboard code answer] 6. Do you have any questions? Has he changed from that in the last 20 years?

avinassh 3y ago

> Turns out it was Joel Spolsky who invented that practice. I'm sure most programmers want to strangle that guy. Lol. Did he though? or did you mean Fizz Buzz? But that was by his friend Jeff Atwood

HumblyTossed 2y ago

> So why do they stay for so long? Sad thing is because it might actually be interesting work.