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I wish someone would ask Sundar Pichai in an interview or something if he is aware of the damage that these constant shutdowns do to his company's reputation.

I wish someone would ask Sundar Pichai in an interview or something if he is aware of the damage that these constant shutdowns do to his company's reputation. Not because I am interested in interrogating him. But because I'm honestly curious about his thinking process. Does he know and not care? Does he not know? Either way the answer would be interesting to me.

xnx 3y ago
Spotify does music and podcasts in one app. Why should Google have two different apps for music and podcasts?
- elondaits 3y ago
  Because discovery, consumption, and metadata are completely different for both mediums. Part of the reason Apple has a separate app for classical music.
- teg4n_ 3y ago
  because a lot of people hate how spotify has the same app for music and podcasts
- happytoexplain 3y ago
  You can do both in one, but it's difficult to get right (which is usually true of combining things into one product). E.g. when I tried it in Spotify, I couldn't find a way to return to where I was in my podcast after listening to music. Every single time I wanted to listen to my podcast after listening to any music, I had to manually scroll through hundreds of episodes until I saw the green checkmarks appear, then scroll back up slowly to find the last one I was listening to. Even if there is a feature for this, I couldn't find it on Android, which is its own UX problem. More importantly, YouTube music simply doesn't have a lot of podcasts. I started transferring my stuff over, and immediately found it was missing multiple podcasts I was listening to. Kind of a huge deal breaker.
- gainda 3y ago
  i like spotify for music & music discovery but trying to manage and track podcasts felt too disorganized. i like pocket casts instead.
- emddudley 3y ago
  I could be OK with that, except that YouTube Music is an awful podcast player. It doesn't have a way to queue up episodes. Also listening to podcasts severely degrades the music experience, the interface intermixes the music and podcasts too much.
- exolymph 3y ago
  > Spotify does music and podcasts in one app. and it's super fucking annoying. my kingdom for the ability to tell Spotify I WILL NEVER LISTEN TO A PODCAST
  - Shawnj2 3y ago
    Spotify’s podcast player sucks too the only reason I would ever use it would be to listen to a Spotify exclusive podcast, none of which I care about
- ianschmitz 3y ago
  And now offers learning courses!
- SkyPuncher 3y ago
  Spotify doesn’t do either well. It’s getting to the point where I’m considering dropping my family Spotify plan. By contrast, Apple Music just works.
  - codegrappler 3y ago
    What does Apple Music do better than Spotify in the music space?
    - SkyPuncher 3y ago
      It plays music and doesn't get in your way. Currently, Spotify: * Has intermixed music with Podcasts * Cannot manage a queue properly. Going forward and backward random just plays completely unrelated songs (ran into this one tonight with my kids) * Displays full-screen pop-up ads * Randomly fails to play sound, despite showing the song playing * Completely forgets recently played songs * Barfs an insane amount of junk at me in the home screen * An AI DJ that is completely garbage. Playing essentially random junk. * Emails me a bunch of spam * Pushes music videos, despite having no interest * Is completely, 100% useless if you turn explicit mode off (I have young kids)
      - salad-tycoon 3y ago
        Well, you’ve obviously have put some thought into this, even if subconsciously. I would like to just add that not only was the ai dj terrible but I would always just hear the same songs over and over. I never count but seems like a handful of songs would be in every play list 8/10 times.
        SkyPuncher 3y ago
        Haha, yes. I've put too much thought into it :P > I never count but seems like a handful of songs would be in every play list 8/10 times. I've joked with my wife that the AI is really just whatever songs are going to generate the most revenue for Spotify. For me, it alternates between: * Cutting off a series of good songs too quickly * Playing the exact same 4 songs in a cluster * The DJ telling me "I love these songs", then proceeding to play songs I have literally (1) never listened to (2) have skipped repeatedly in the past few weeks. It's also fun that it can't figure out me playing sleepy time music for hours and hours on occasion is not indicative of me actually enjoying that music.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Spotify doesn’t “do” podcast at all. I can’t just put an RSS feed into the Spotify app and subscribe to it. Whatever Spotify is doing. It’s a horrible excuse for a podcast player even compared to Apple’s podcast app and that’s saying a lot. At least with Apple’s podcast app, I can subscribe to any podcast if I know its URL. I use Overcast for what it’s worth - not Apple’s podcast app.
twright 3y ago
I think you would get an answer that implies not caring. Pichai is a former Wharton and McKinsey guy, his job description is "provide value to shareholders" and cutting products and headcount does just that. I share your frustration, I hope we one day find a way to move past this brand of business management.
pie420 3y ago
This is purely to minimize monopoly accusations. Unless the product is making google billions in profit, it's not worth the risk to google. Podcasts is maybe hundreds of millions of dollars a year, but if regulators found evidence of google using Search or Android to give Podcasts an unfair advantage, it could give them the ammo to split Google up. Microsoft was almost sliced up due to Internet Explorer, not very different.
lxgr 3y ago
If it even were just a clean shutdown! The newest Google trend is to move features around between apps and (presumably) across the org chart. Looking at Google Pay/Android Wallet/Android Pay/Pay/Google Pay (old), Duo/Google Meet (old)/Google Meet/Google Meet (part of Gmail) and others.
gagaJo 3y ago
Obviously he’s aware; it would be too hard for it not to come up given how often it’s posted on social media. The mistake you make is belief Google is in the same business as our little web apps; making money to live. No. Google’s goal is preserve and grow the wealth and power its investors have over society. That means bleeding edge not bothering with 20 year old pop culture obsessions.
scarface_74 3y ago
Yes it was probably mostly FUD. But you can’t imagine the number of sales calls I sat on when I worked at AWS ProServe where I heard them talk to customers about how they couldn’t trust GCP to keep a new service around and used their history of abandoning products as evidence.
Razengan 3y ago
> I wish someone would ask Sundar Pichai in an interview or something if he is aware of the damage that these constant shutdowns do to his company's reputation. I bet he would like to ask you if you are aware of how little damage a bad reputation does to the company's money.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
  Ehh. It accumulates. Shutting down IoT is something companies remember when they rely upon you to be stable. Or shutting down domains which was a value add to their platform. Stadia’s death was predicted in its crib because everyone expected Google could not follow through on the idea (from the outside, it does appear Google treated the adopters decently after the shutdown). These actions lead to a death spiral. Why should I invest in a doomed platform?
  - fragmede 3y ago
    The lack of ability of Google to commit to a specific length of time that they'd commit to Stadia for was baffling. If they'd just say we're going to commit to stadi for the length of the NES console generation or something, then it becomes a straight business calculation - compare x to y, where x is cost to port + on going maintenance, vs Y, expected sales over a known time period. everything has a lifespan, we don't go around telling each other we're doomed, just because one day we'll all eventually die.

xnx 3y ago

Spotify does music and podcasts in one app. Why should Google have two different apps for music and podcasts?

elondaits 3y ago
Because discovery, consumption, and metadata are completely different for both mediums. Part of the reason Apple has a separate app for classical music.
teg4n_ 3y ago
because a lot of people hate how spotify has the same app for music and podcasts
happytoexplain 3y ago
You can do both in one, but it's difficult to get right (which is usually true of combining things into one product). E.g. when I tried it in Spotify, I couldn't find a way to return to where I was in my podcast after listening to music. Every single time I wanted to listen to my podcast after listening to any music, I had to manually scroll through hundreds of episodes until I saw the green checkmarks appear, then scroll back up slowly to find the last one I was listening to. Even if there is a feature for this, I couldn't find it on Android, which is its own UX problem. More importantly, YouTube music simply doesn't have a lot of podcasts. I started transferring my stuff over, and immediately found it was missing multiple podcasts I was listening to. Kind of a huge deal breaker.
gainda 3y ago
i like spotify for music & music discovery but trying to manage and track podcasts felt too disorganized. i like pocket casts instead.
emddudley 3y ago
I could be OK with that, except that YouTube Music is an awful podcast player. It doesn't have a way to queue up episodes. Also listening to podcasts severely degrades the music experience, the interface intermixes the music and podcasts too much.
exolymph 3y ago
> Spotify does music and podcasts in one app. and it's super fucking annoying. my kingdom for the ability to tell Spotify I WILL NEVER LISTEN TO A PODCAST
- Shawnj2 3y ago
  Spotify’s podcast player sucks too the only reason I would ever use it would be to listen to a Spotify exclusive podcast, none of which I care about
ianschmitz 3y ago
And now offers learning courses!
SkyPuncher 3y ago
Spotify doesn’t do either well. It’s getting to the point where I’m considering dropping my family Spotify plan. By contrast, Apple Music just works.
- codegrappler 3y ago
  What does Apple Music do better than Spotify in the music space?
  - SkyPuncher 3y ago
    It plays music and doesn't get in your way. Currently, Spotify: * Has intermixed music with Podcasts * Cannot manage a queue properly. Going forward and backward random just plays completely unrelated songs (ran into this one tonight with my kids) * Displays full-screen pop-up ads * Randomly fails to play sound, despite showing the song playing * Completely forgets recently played songs * Barfs an insane amount of junk at me in the home screen * An AI DJ that is completely garbage. Playing essentially random junk. * Emails me a bunch of spam * Pushes music videos, despite having no interest * Is completely, 100% useless if you turn explicit mode off (I have young kids)
    - salad-tycoon 3y ago
      Well, you’ve obviously have put some thought into this, even if subconsciously. I would like to just add that not only was the ai dj terrible but I would always just hear the same songs over and over. I never count but seems like a handful of songs would be in every play list 8/10 times.
      - SkyPuncher 3y ago
        Haha, yes. I've put too much thought into it :P > I never count but seems like a handful of songs would be in every play list 8/10 times. I've joked with my wife that the AI is really just whatever songs are going to generate the most revenue for Spotify. For me, it alternates between: * Cutting off a series of good songs too quickly * Playing the exact same 4 songs in a cluster * The DJ telling me "I love these songs", then proceeding to play songs I have literally (1) never listened to (2) have skipped repeatedly in the past few weeks. It's also fun that it can't figure out me playing sleepy time music for hours and hours on occasion is not indicative of me actually enjoying that music.
scarface_74 3y ago
Spotify doesn’t “do” podcast at all. I can’t just put an RSS feed into the Spotify app and subscribe to it. Whatever Spotify is doing. It’s a horrible excuse for a podcast player even compared to Apple’s podcast app and that’s saying a lot. At least with Apple’s podcast app, I can subscribe to any podcast if I know its URL. I use Overcast for what it’s worth - not Apple’s podcast app.

twright 3y ago

I think you would get an answer that implies not caring. Pichai is a former Wharton and McKinsey guy, his job description is "provide value to shareholders" and cutting products and headcount does just that. I share your frustration, I hope we one day find a way to move past this brand of business management.

pie420 3y ago

This is purely to minimize monopoly accusations. Unless the product is making google billions in profit, it's not worth the risk to google. Podcasts is maybe hundreds of millions of dollars a year, but if regulators found evidence of google using Search or Android to give Podcasts an unfair advantage, it could give them the ammo to split Google up. Microsoft was almost sliced up due to Internet Explorer, not very different.

lxgr 3y ago

If it even were just a clean shutdown! The newest Google trend is to move features around between apps and (presumably) across the org chart. Looking at Google Pay/Android Wallet/Android Pay/Pay/Google Pay (old), Duo/Google Meet (old)/Google Meet/Google Meet (part of Gmail) and others.

gagaJo 3y ago

Obviously he’s aware; it would be too hard for it not to come up given how often it’s posted on social media. The mistake you make is belief Google is in the same business as our little web apps; making money to live. No. Google’s goal is preserve and grow the wealth and power its investors have over society. That means bleeding edge not bothering with 20 year old pop culture obsessions.

scarface_74 3y ago

Yes it was probably mostly FUD. But you can’t imagine the number of sales calls I sat on when I worked at AWS ProServe where I heard them talk to customers about how they couldn’t trust GCP to keep a new service around and used their history of abandoning products as evidence.

Razengan 3y ago

> I wish someone would ask Sundar Pichai in an interview or something if he is aware of the damage that these constant shutdowns do to his company's reputation. I bet he would like to ask you if you are aware of how little damage a bad reputation does to the company's money.

0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
Ehh. It accumulates. Shutting down IoT is something companies remember when they rely upon you to be stable. Or shutting down domains which was a value add to their platform. Stadia’s death was predicted in its crib because everyone expected Google could not follow through on the idea (from the outside, it does appear Google treated the adopters decently after the shutdown). These actions lead to a death spiral. Why should I invest in a doomed platform?
- fragmede 3y ago
  The lack of ability of Google to commit to a specific length of time that they'd commit to Stadia for was baffling. If they'd just say we're going to commit to stadi for the length of the NES console generation or something, then it becomes a straight business calculation - compare x to y, where x is cost to port + on going maintenance, vs Y, expected sales over a known time period. everything has a lifespan, we don't go around telling each other we're doomed, just because one day we'll all eventually die.