4 ms·

might not be a joke in there. degrowth is a thing a lot of people believe in unironically.

by inhumantsar 3y ago

voisin 3y ago
What’s ironic about not believing in perpetual growth with finite resources?
- throwaway11460 3y ago
  Saying it in a situation where we don't utilize even 1% of available resources. Much closer to 0.0001% than 1%. Also saying it in a situation where we don't even really attempt to be efficient. Now I'm all for efficiency - but that's not what the degrowth people are saying.
  - throwaway4220 3y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Overshoot_Day https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Overshoot_Day Despite some flaws with the above it is not crazy to believe we have finite resources. Your numbers are sadly orders of magnitude too low.
    - throwaway11460 3y ago
      That's a complete pseudoscientific quack, sorry to be so blunt. Even if it wasn't, it doesn't meaningfully invalidate anything I said.
      - throwaway4220 3y ago
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3818166/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3818166/ Let’s see your source for such a low percentage. I can tell you know we don’t have enough lithium for 1e6x more electric cars then we have now. Now maybe you’re imagining a future where we can replicate things so we do have the raw materials ie atoms? I’d agree with that
- novariation 3y ago
  The number of people who've read LTG and think the world3 ressource usage predictions are accurate is crazy. The authors themselves say it's not accurate and overly simplistic. By very far the threat to humanity is global warming, not resource depletion. A lot of degrowthers want resource depletion to be very important because that's the only way what they call "green capitalism" doesn't work, but that's not fact-based. Sadly for them basic pigouvian taxes + subsidies to innovation + reasonable behavioral changes (due to taxation) will mitigate most of the problem. That's completely compatible with what they despise as "green growth".
  - swingingFlyFish 3y ago
    "By very far the threat to humanity is global warming, not resource depletion." One begets the other...from either direction.
btbuildem 3y ago
Because unchecked, endless growth in a finite environment is something we can believe in unironically, right?
- throwaway11460 3y ago
  There's no finite environment in an infinite universe. We are not anywhere near utilizing even 1% of what's available on this planet.
- iwontberude 3y ago
  According to dipshits like Jeff Bezos they want trillions of us living in space on stations like house cats.
  - throwaway11460 3y ago
    I want to live on a space station.
- kwere 3y ago
  growth can also mean efficiency increase, not only "expansion". I rember that Japan is the most efficient society in its use of inputs at around 20%. there is enormous space for growth

might not be a joke in there. degrowth is a thing a lot of people believe in unironically.

voisin 3y ago

What’s ironic about not believing in perpetual growth with finite resources?

throwaway11460 3y ago
Saying it in a situation where we don't utilize even 1% of available resources. Much closer to 0.0001% than 1%. Also saying it in a situation where we don't even really attempt to be efficient. Now I'm all for efficiency - but that's not what the degrowth people are saying.
- throwaway4220 3y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Overshoot_Day https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Overshoot_Day Despite some flaws with the above it is not crazy to believe we have finite resources. Your numbers are sadly orders of magnitude too low.
  - throwaway11460 3y ago
    That's a complete pseudoscientific quack, sorry to be so blunt. Even if it wasn't, it doesn't meaningfully invalidate anything I said.
    - throwaway4220 3y ago
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3818166/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3818166/ Let’s see your source for such a low percentage. I can tell you know we don’t have enough lithium for 1e6x more electric cars then we have now. Now maybe you’re imagining a future where we can replicate things so we do have the raw materials ie atoms? I’d agree with that
novariation 3y ago
The number of people who've read LTG and think the world3 ressource usage predictions are accurate is crazy. The authors themselves say it's not accurate and overly simplistic. By very far the threat to humanity is global warming, not resource depletion. A lot of degrowthers want resource depletion to be very important because that's the only way what they call "green capitalism" doesn't work, but that's not fact-based. Sadly for them basic pigouvian taxes + subsidies to innovation + reasonable behavioral changes (due to taxation) will mitigate most of the problem. That's completely compatible with what they despise as "green growth".
- swingingFlyFish 3y ago
  "By very far the threat to humanity is global warming, not resource depletion." One begets the other...from either direction.

btbuildem 3y ago

Because unchecked, endless growth in a finite environment is something we can believe in unironically, right?

throwaway11460 3y ago
There's no finite environment in an infinite universe. We are not anywhere near utilizing even 1% of what's available on this planet.
iwontberude 3y ago
According to dipshits like Jeff Bezos they want trillions of us living in space on stations like house cats.
- throwaway11460 3y ago
  I want to live on a space station.
kwere 3y ago
growth can also mean efficiency increase, not only "expansion". I rember that Japan is the most efficient society in its use of inputs at around 20%. there is enormous space for growth