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> attendance has become optional I recognize this with my own kids and my students. Two things: 1) since the pandemic the bar for a sick day has been lowered d

> attendance has become optional I recognize this with my own kids and my students. Two things: 1) since the pandemic the bar for a sick day has been lowered drastically. 2) Educational material can be found online in most of the cases, at least in my university. Students think they can handle it themselves from home. These are not necessarily bad developments. What would be interesting to see is if the drop out rate has increased.

cies 3y ago
> Students think they can handle it themselves from home. Some have show to do well from home, especially when schools opened up a little bit at the end of the pandemic: all was online, some students thrived!
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  Oh for sure, but the challenge is that every student has different needs; some thrive in at-home self-directed study, others need one on one care, others need a classroom environment, etc. Policy is set through statistics and cost / benefit though; the protestant classroom setting for a good while was the most cost-effective way to get many students up to a specific level. It wasn't perfect, but it worked at the time.
fullshark 3y ago
They are probably bad developments, as much as we want to pretend kids are strong minded independent learners, the reality is they are kids and need guidance and a teacher to instill discipline. This is something we've known for millennia that we want to pretend isn't true because it's more convenient to ignore, also because of our obsession with venerating youth culturally.
- bluedino 3y ago
  We've removed more and more rules from every aspect of society and suffered because of it. It does seem like things are starting to reverse though
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  This is a complaint going back to Aristotle, almost verbatim.
- alpaca128 3y ago
  Based on my experience the first problem there is that many teachers are incapable of providing guidance or enforcing discipline. And that's assuming the teacher still cares, which isn't guaranteed either. And with teachers having to deal with bad pay and crazy parents thinking it's the teacher's job to raise their kid that's not surprising. Kids not going to school is a symptom, and it's not going to be solved with attempts to make school more attractive without actually changing anything.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Even the teachers that care are no longer (in many cases) backed up by the school and (more importantly) the parents. Everyone in my high school didn't really care too much about taking a detention (it was annoying) but would work pretty studiously to avoid anything being sent home to the parents.
tgv 3y ago
> What would be interesting to see is if the drop out rate has increased. Unis will drop their standards to get the desired pass rates.
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  They have a federally ensured revenue stream, in what world wouldn’t they raise prices and lower standards?

cies 3y ago

> Students think they can handle it themselves from home. Some have show to do well from home, especially when schools opened up a little bit at the end of the pandemic: all was online, some students thrived!

Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Oh for sure, but the challenge is that every student has different needs; some thrive in at-home self-directed study, others need one on one care, others need a classroom environment, etc. Policy is set through statistics and cost / benefit though; the protestant classroom setting for a good while was the most cost-effective way to get many students up to a specific level. It wasn't perfect, but it worked at the time.

fullshark 3y ago

They are probably bad developments, as much as we want to pretend kids are strong minded independent learners, the reality is they are kids and need guidance and a teacher to instill discipline. This is something we've known for millennia that we want to pretend isn't true because it's more convenient to ignore, also because of our obsession with venerating youth culturally.

bluedino 3y ago
We've removed more and more rules from every aspect of society and suffered because of it. It does seem like things are starting to reverse though
actionfromafar 3y ago
This is a complaint going back to Aristotle, almost verbatim.
alpaca128 3y ago
Based on my experience the first problem there is that many teachers are incapable of providing guidance or enforcing discipline. And that's assuming the teacher still cares, which isn't guaranteed either. And with teachers having to deal with bad pay and crazy parents thinking it's the teacher's job to raise their kid that's not surprising. Kids not going to school is a symptom, and it's not going to be solved with attempts to make school more attractive without actually changing anything.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Even the teachers that care are no longer (in many cases) backed up by the school and (more importantly) the parents. Everyone in my high school didn't really care too much about taking a detention (it was annoying) but would work pretty studiously to avoid anything being sent home to the parents.

tgv 3y ago

> What would be interesting to see is if the drop out rate has increased. Unis will drop their standards to get the desired pass rates.

SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
They have a federally ensured revenue stream, in what world wouldn’t they raise prices and lower standards?