4 ms·

> thats A LOT for city driving. Most of America is very much NOT city. If you start on the East coast of South Carolina and drive West, after 9.5 hours of driv

> thats A LOT for city driving. Most of America is very much NOT city. If you start on the East coast of South Carolina and drive West, after 9.5 hours of driving you'll be in...South Carolina still. > secondly, on highways there are chargers popping up so it wouldnt matter Call me when fully recharging an EV takes the same time as fully fueling an ICE car. I don't want to sit at a station for 45 minutes every 180km on my road trip.

jeltz 3y ago
Most of China isn't a city either, but just like in the US most people live in cities.
- vel0city 3y ago
  A good example of the failure of expressing something as either urban or rural. There's worlds of difference between what a lot of US "urban" areas look like compared to China's "urban" areas. You see those photos of rows and rows of giant apartment towers in Chinese cities? Now compare that to photos of Atlanta or Nashville or Dallas or LA. Notice how there's a big lack of the oceans of giant apartment towers? Maybe that makes some kind of difference in transportation.
  - sofixa 3y ago
    This argument is just.... wrong. For a video describing how wrong it is, refer to Not Just Bikes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REni8Oi1QJQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REni8Oi1QJQ For text and numbers: Shenzhen urban area is 1,748 km2. Atlanta is 353.04km2. Los Angeles City is 1,299 km2 (yes the metro area is quite larger, but so is Shenzhen's). The average length of a trip in the US is 19.63 km. This is simple basic stuff. There is absolutely nothing that makes Americans uniquely need tank-sized vehicles with 1000km range, even with the uniquely terrible urban design that most American cities have.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      Please, show me a view like this in Atlanta: https://external-preview.redd.it/l-nJkXPlhrxDStYQNwQ7BUfpNFcm3fmkMtwq2rS1-D8.jpg?auto=webp&s=e2b2dac1d10f2cadb273c976b0da1ad5d9bd383e https://external-preview.redd.it/l-nJkXPlhrxDStYQNwQ7BUfpNFc... https://live.staticflickr.com/2486/4155417202_9510efd2dc_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/2486/4155417202_9510efd2dc_b.j... Hop on Google Maps. Just look for yourself. Does Shenzen look like Atlanta Or LA? Where's the seas of single-family houses? They're not there. Have all the text and numbers you want, just look and see. If you really think Shenzen's urban areas look like Atlanta or LA after spending two minutes on Google Maps, you're delusional. > uniquely need tank-sized vehicles with 1000km range I'm not arguing people need 1,000km range, but personally I wouldn't buy a car without at least 150+mi range for a non-road trip car given the realities of the city I live in. At least monthly I drive >100mi round trip and would like some amount of range extra in there, as the destination doesn't yet have charging. And I'm pretty light on driving!
      - sofixa 3y ago
        > Does Shenzen look like Atlanta Or LA? Where's the seas of single-family houses They aren't there because Shenzen urban planers have higher IQ than room temperature in Celsius. That doesn't mean most Americans travel huge distances daily. > I'm not arguing people need 1,000km range, but personally I wouldn't buy a car without at least 150+mi range for a non-road trip car given the realities of the city I live in. At least monthly I drive >100mi round trip and would like some amount of range extra in there, as the destination doesn't yet have charging. And I'm pretty light on driving! Again, the average trip in the US is less than 20km. So that means that the majority of people living in America would be totally fine with a Renault Zoe, Dacia Spring, Renault 5 or equivalent vehicle for most of their trips. Hell, many will be fine in a Citroen Ami.
        vel0city 3y ago
        > That doesn't mean most Americans travel huge distances daily. The urban design absolutely has a huge impact of routine distances travelled and total miles driven in a day. If there's a corner store at the bottom of my 40 story tall apartment tower instead of driving a few miles, it changes your travel distances considerably. > the average trip in the US is less than 20km I don't buy my car for my 50th percentile drive. Probably 60% of my drives are less than 10mi. I'm not going to buy a car that only gets me 20mi though. I'd rather buy a car that meets at least my 80% needs on range. I'll deal with charging on long road trips, but until there's at least a good number of chargers locally where I'm almost guaranteed to be able to charge at the destination if on one of those 75-80th percentile drives I'm going to want plenty of charge to go there and back again without needing to stop in the middle, even if only for like 10 minutes or so. Also, when talking area, you're comparing Atlanta proper to Shenzen. You should really be comparing the Atlanta metro area (21,693km²) or the LA-Anaheim-Riverside CSA at 87,940 km². China doesn't really do the same thing as the US with tons of smaller cities surrounding a small central city, they largely just have the one big city. Don't get me wrong, I'm in agreement that people generally don't need 300+mi range on their cars, Americans tend to drive massively oversized vehicles for their needs, lots of urban design in the US has been pretty trash in the end, etc. And yeah, I'm in agreement that a Renault Zoe, with ~250mi of range, could suit most Americans. That's still 2x more range than a Tiago.ev, and the Zoe is still quite a big larger. Thinking the Tiago.ev would be widely accepted in the US, in its current climate, is a fantasy.
redeeman 3y ago
okay... that car isnt for you, nobody suggested this will be the range for EVERYONE?
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jeltz 3y ago

Most of China isn't a city either, but just like in the US most people live in cities.

vel0city 3y ago
A good example of the failure of expressing something as either urban or rural. There's worlds of difference between what a lot of US "urban" areas look like compared to China's "urban" areas. You see those photos of rows and rows of giant apartment towers in Chinese cities? Now compare that to photos of Atlanta or Nashville or Dallas or LA. Notice how there's a big lack of the oceans of giant apartment towers? Maybe that makes some kind of difference in transportation.
- sofixa 3y ago
  This argument is just.... wrong. For a video describing how wrong it is, refer to Not Just Bikes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REni8Oi1QJQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REni8Oi1QJQ For text and numbers: Shenzhen urban area is 1,748 km2. Atlanta is 353.04km2. Los Angeles City is 1,299 km2 (yes the metro area is quite larger, but so is Shenzhen's). The average length of a trip in the US is 19.63 km. This is simple basic stuff. There is absolutely nothing that makes Americans uniquely need tank-sized vehicles with 1000km range, even with the uniquely terrible urban design that most American cities have.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    Please, show me a view like this in Atlanta: https://external-preview.redd.it/l-nJkXPlhrxDStYQNwQ7BUfpNFcm3fmkMtwq2rS1-D8.jpg?auto=webp&s=e2b2dac1d10f2cadb273c976b0da1ad5d9bd383e https://external-preview.redd.it/l-nJkXPlhrxDStYQNwQ7BUfpNFc... https://live.staticflickr.com/2486/4155417202_9510efd2dc_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/2486/4155417202_9510efd2dc_b.j... Hop on Google Maps. Just look for yourself. Does Shenzen look like Atlanta Or LA? Where's the seas of single-family houses? They're not there. Have all the text and numbers you want, just look and see. If you really think Shenzen's urban areas look like Atlanta or LA after spending two minutes on Google Maps, you're delusional. > uniquely need tank-sized vehicles with 1000km range I'm not arguing people need 1,000km range, but personally I wouldn't buy a car without at least 150+mi range for a non-road trip car given the realities of the city I live in. At least monthly I drive >100mi round trip and would like some amount of range extra in there, as the destination doesn't yet have charging. And I'm pretty light on driving!
    - sofixa 3y ago
      > Does Shenzen look like Atlanta Or LA? Where's the seas of single-family houses They aren't there because Shenzen urban planers have higher IQ than room temperature in Celsius. That doesn't mean most Americans travel huge distances daily. > I'm not arguing people need 1,000km range, but personally I wouldn't buy a car without at least 150+mi range for a non-road trip car given the realities of the city I live in. At least monthly I drive >100mi round trip and would like some amount of range extra in there, as the destination doesn't yet have charging. And I'm pretty light on driving! Again, the average trip in the US is less than 20km. So that means that the majority of people living in America would be totally fine with a Renault Zoe, Dacia Spring, Renault 5 or equivalent vehicle for most of their trips. Hell, many will be fine in a Citroen Ami.
      - vel0city 3y ago
        > That doesn't mean most Americans travel huge distances daily. The urban design absolutely has a huge impact of routine distances travelled and total miles driven in a day. If there's a corner store at the bottom of my 40 story tall apartment tower instead of driving a few miles, it changes your travel distances considerably. > the average trip in the US is less than 20km I don't buy my car for my 50th percentile drive. Probably 60% of my drives are less than 10mi. I'm not going to buy a car that only gets me 20mi though. I'd rather buy a car that meets at least my 80% needs on range. I'll deal with charging on long road trips, but until there's at least a good number of chargers locally where I'm almost guaranteed to be able to charge at the destination if on one of those 75-80th percentile drives I'm going to want plenty of charge to go there and back again without needing to stop in the middle, even if only for like 10 minutes or so. Also, when talking area, you're comparing Atlanta proper to Shenzen. You should really be comparing the Atlanta metro area (21,693km²) or the LA-Anaheim-Riverside CSA at 87,940 km². China doesn't really do the same thing as the US with tons of smaller cities surrounding a small central city, they largely just have the one big city. Don't get me wrong, I'm in agreement that people generally don't need 300+mi range on their cars, Americans tend to drive massively oversized vehicles for their needs, lots of urban design in the US has been pretty trash in the end, etc. And yeah, I'm in agreement that a Renault Zoe, with ~250mi of range, could suit most Americans. That's still 2x more range than a Tiago.ev, and the Zoe is still quite a big larger. Thinking the Tiago.ev would be widely accepted in the US, in its current climate, is a fantasy.

redeeman 3y ago

okay... that car isnt for you, nobody suggested this will be the range for EVERYONE?

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