3 ms·

It is quite obviously good for the people doing it. No one would ever debate that. It is incumbent upon supporters to explain why this is good for the native po

by PKop 3y ago

It is quite obviously good for the people doing it. No one would ever debate that. It is incumbent upon supporters to explain why this is good for the native population. Shouldn't that be the priority?

denimnerd42 3y ago
Yup.. I'd love to start a general contracting business but I don't want to in an environment I have to compete with people that are hiring illegal immigrants and children. Not because of any moral reasons but I'd like to pay a fair wage and provide benefits. I can't compete with under the table pay and I'm not breaking the law.
- PKop 3y ago
  That's certainly one example of a counter-argument. One might even consider the literacy rate falling from 96% to 79% as another.
  - denimnerd42 3y ago
    but hey the GDP is going up!
nunez 3y ago
We are the wealthiest country in the world. Our founding credo is that everyone belongs here. [0] We should stand behind that. Nobody wants to immigrate into a country illegally. [0] The Founding Fathers had the right idea even if "everyone" didn't mean "actually everyone" at the time the country was founded.
- jfengel 3y ago
  I keep expecting the French to demand the Statue of Liberty back. Or at least tell us to change the sign to "Huddled masses: keep out".
  - PKop 3y ago
    That poem was added to the statue 17 years after it's opening, by an American. It has nothing to do with the French, and the statue was not designed to symbolize "immigration" but liberty and enlightenment. Maybe they'll suggest chaining the sign, but they never created it in the first place.
- PKop 3y ago
  >Our founding credo is that everyone belongs here. This is an absurd falsehood. It is an indefensible assertion based on nothing but modern moralism. >We are the wealthiest country in the world This wealth can be squandered by catering to the desires of outsiders that want to come here. We should stand behind maintaining that wealth, power, and quality of life for our dependents and pass along that prosperity to them. Turning the country from 96% literate to 79%, and all the associated degradation that comes along with that, is not the morally honorable position. The demographics in 1980, let alone 1776 were very specific and narrow. I'll note that no one supporting this seems to be claiming the country will be better or stronger or this will benefit the citizens already here. Only that it is good for the people coming in. This is not how politics is done well or national interest is defended. Leaders that pursue this are abdicating their responsibility towards the people they are supposed to serve.
  - nunez 3y ago
    A significant amount of that wealth is built on the backs of those very people. Further, insinuating that this literacy drop (putting aside changes to how literacy was measured during that time) is entirely the fault of undocumented persons is careless.

by PKop 3y ago

denimnerd42 3y ago

Yup.. I'd love to start a general contracting business but I don't want to in an environment I have to compete with people that are hiring illegal immigrants and children. Not because of any moral reasons but I'd like to pay a fair wage and provide benefits. I can't compete with under the table pay and I'm not breaking the law.

PKop 3y ago
That's certainly one example of a counter-argument. One might even consider the literacy rate falling from 96% to 79% as another.
- denimnerd42 3y ago
  but hey the GDP is going up!

nunez 3y ago

We are the wealthiest country in the world. Our founding credo is that everyone belongs here. [0] We should stand behind that. Nobody wants to immigrate into a country illegally. [0] The Founding Fathers had the right idea even if "everyone" didn't mean "actually everyone" at the time the country was founded.

jfengel 3y ago
I keep expecting the French to demand the Statue of Liberty back. Or at least tell us to change the sign to "Huddled masses: keep out".
- PKop 3y ago
  That poem was added to the statue 17 years after it's opening, by an American. It has nothing to do with the French, and the statue was not designed to symbolize "immigration" but liberty and enlightenment. Maybe they'll suggest chaining the sign, but they never created it in the first place.
PKop 3y ago
>Our founding credo is that everyone belongs here. This is an absurd falsehood. It is an indefensible assertion based on nothing but modern moralism. >We are the wealthiest country in the world This wealth can be squandered by catering to the desires of outsiders that want to come here. We should stand behind maintaining that wealth, power, and quality of life for our dependents and pass along that prosperity to them. Turning the country from 96% literate to 79%, and all the associated degradation that comes along with that, is not the morally honorable position. The demographics in 1980, let alone 1776 were very specific and narrow. I'll note that no one supporting this seems to be claiming the country will be better or stronger or this will benefit the citizens already here. Only that it is good for the people coming in. This is not how politics is done well or national interest is defended. Leaders that pursue this are abdicating their responsibility towards the people they are supposed to serve.
- nunez 3y ago
  A significant amount of that wealth is built on the backs of those very people. Further, insinuating that this literacy drop (putting aside changes to how literacy was measured during that time) is entirely the fault of undocumented persons is careless.