7 ms·

Hmm ... "proto-danksharding" which activated the "blobscriptions protocol" so that blobs are "much cheaper than calldata", all of this helping it to become an "

Hmm ... "proto-danksharding" which activated the "blobscriptions protocol" so that blobs are "much cheaper than calldata", all of this helping it to become an "L2-centric ecosystem". In the end, this leaves them "not confident enough in the complex code of an optimistic or SNARK-based EVM verifier". I'm sold ... just tell me where to transfer the money.

everfree 3y ago
The actual quote is "we are not *currently* at the point where we can be confident enough in the complex code of an optimistic or SNARK-based EVM verifier". The article seems to imply that "in the end", they will be.
- elcritch 3y ago
  Unlike the parent, the full quote gives me more confidence that they're being serious about the upgrades to the Ethereum protocol. This stuff is all cutting edge distribute systems and zero-knowledge proofs work, so of course it's going to take a while to reach confidence in how it'll work.
- PoignardAzur 3y ago
  Something tells me that even if/when the optimistic or SNARK-based EVM verifier is production-ready, the person you're replying to will still feel somewhat unconvinced.
  - pa7x1 3y ago
    Very likely, but if they get it sorted out one day he will be using it without knowing. If you have no interest whatsoever and they start explaining to you all the cryptography behind establishing a secure connection to your bank most people would dismiss it as mumbo-jumbo. But now you can tell your grandma to look out for the little green lock on the web that makes her account secure.
    - EMM_386 3y ago
      > he will be using it without knowing. I will know. Not because of the "little green lock". I will know in the same way I know this site is secure. In this case, because of PKCS #1 SHA-256 (aka CKM_SHA1_RSA_PKCS_PSS). Cert issued by DigiCert Global Root G2 and valid until one second before midnight UTC on 3/29/31. That's where I guess I'm losing sight of the vision. It's tested, it's proven, it's secure, it works, no "gas", no fees ... I don't know. Maybe I'm just missing something.
teekert 3y ago
[flagged]
- d-lisp 3y ago
  When setting up my DWS on the chain I performed a fresh implementation of the flex spanning system so that sharded stakes were accordingly modulated when dilution factors are on the rise. Retro validators should never rely on the sole consideration of performative liquidity, and that's why in most use-cases, distributive-non-passing underfitted categorization of assets is preferable. Every DNP-uca implementation has proto-failure systems that allow for better mining experiences, in fact every time assets are minted you obtain by-products of the initial dilution thanks to the false commitment that is produced when pseudo-stakers correct the current derivation according to the relative spike index. That's why the tech interested me at first.
  - teekert 3y ago
    LLMs at their finest.
- Zetaphor 3y ago
  Just because you're unfamiliar with the technology doesn't mean it's nonsense. The failing is yours in actually looking into these things rather than trying to be funny. If you explain to most people how a TLS handshake works it will sound to them as equally nonsensical. This technology is complicated, this article is targeted at an audience that understands the technology, not one that needs a "My first introduction to distributed computing"
  - earnesti 3y ago
    TLS handshake actually makes sense for average programmers who understand basic cryptography. Ethereums problem is that it is a badly designed clusterfuck. The newer blockchains will likely take over.
    - Zetaphor 3y ago
PufPufPuf 3y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if all that was just a made up jargon and this was a joke article. But again, it's about blockchain, so the line is thin.
- Zetaphor 3y ago
  There's actually interesting technology being developed here in the areas of distributed computation and zero trust systems. The implementations of Zero Knowledge Proofs and ongoing work on ZK-SNARKS I personally find most fascinating. There's a lot more to this ecosystem than just speculation. At it's core is a distributed world computer but all anyone knows about is money.exe because this stuff is immensely complex. If you look into the researcher rather than paying attention to the soyjack youtube thumbnails you'll find the actual substance. Nobody is going do the work for you. Or you know, just write it all off with a snide joke because "crypto bad".
  - talldayo 3y ago
    > At it's core is a distributed world computer but all anyone knows about is money.exe because this stuff is immensely complex. Alternatively, because the only way to use the aforementioned distributed world computer is to engage with money.exe and buy more CoinTokens. Imagine all the kids out there who will be delighted to learn a pay-per-use code interpreter. "Hey mom, I need your credit card to cover the gas while I debug my smart contract." But assuming you have the money to spend, it's a whole universe of possibilities! Just make sure to cash in before actually trying to use any of them.
    - Zetaphor 3y ago
      The problem with this statement is in assuming that any of this is actually ready for the average user, like a minor with their parents credit card. It's really unfortunate that the space received all of the attention it did during the pandemic, as that only managed to bring in misaligned expectations fueled by grifters making impossible claims. There are a number of planned upgrades on the roadmap[1], such as layer 2 blobs, that will eventually drive the cost per transaction closer to zero, however we're still a decade away from that being the case. In the meantime you can debug your smart contracts on a testnet for $0 [1] https://notes.ethereum.org/@domothy/roadmap https://notes.ethereum.org/@domothy/roadmap
monero-xmr 3y ago
The only reason it's foreign to you is because you are not familiar with any of the technology. It's no different that having no idea about LLMs or ML or transformers etc., or if you are not a programmer than being confused by arrays and recursion and TCP/IP...
- Salgat 3y ago
  Obviously, the whole point is to tease all this serious discussion over something that amounts to a toy with almost no practical application.
microtherion 3y ago
Yes, reading TFA left me quite unclear as to how many slurp juices per ape all this new technology translates into.

everfree 3y ago

The actual quote is "we are not *currently* at the point where we can be confident enough in the complex code of an optimistic or SNARK-based EVM verifier". The article seems to imply that "in the end", they will be.

elcritch 3y ago
Unlike the parent, the full quote gives me more confidence that they're being serious about the upgrades to the Ethereum protocol. This stuff is all cutting edge distribute systems and zero-knowledge proofs work, so of course it's going to take a while to reach confidence in how it'll work.
PoignardAzur 3y ago
Something tells me that even if/when the optimistic or SNARK-based EVM verifier is production-ready, the person you're replying to will still feel somewhat unconvinced.
- pa7x1 3y ago
  Very likely, but if they get it sorted out one day he will be using it without knowing. If you have no interest whatsoever and they start explaining to you all the cryptography behind establishing a secure connection to your bank most people would dismiss it as mumbo-jumbo. But now you can tell your grandma to look out for the little green lock on the web that makes her account secure.
  - EMM_386 3y ago
    > he will be using it without knowing. I will know. Not because of the "little green lock". I will know in the same way I know this site is secure. In this case, because of PKCS #1 SHA-256 (aka CKM_SHA1_RSA_PKCS_PSS). Cert issued by DigiCert Global Root G2 and valid until one second before midnight UTC on 3/29/31. That's where I guess I'm losing sight of the vision. It's tested, it's proven, it's secure, it works, no "gas", no fees ... I don't know. Maybe I'm just missing something.

teekert 3y ago

[flagged]

d-lisp 3y ago
When setting up my DWS on the chain I performed a fresh implementation of the flex spanning system so that sharded stakes were accordingly modulated when dilution factors are on the rise. Retro validators should never rely on the sole consideration of performative liquidity, and that's why in most use-cases, distributive-non-passing underfitted categorization of assets is preferable. Every DNP-uca implementation has proto-failure systems that allow for better mining experiences, in fact every time assets are minted you obtain by-products of the initial dilution thanks to the false commitment that is produced when pseudo-stakers correct the current derivation according to the relative spike index. That's why the tech interested me at first.
- teekert 3y ago
  LLMs at their finest.
Zetaphor 3y ago
Just because you're unfamiliar with the technology doesn't mean it's nonsense. The failing is yours in actually looking into these things rather than trying to be funny. If you explain to most people how a TLS handshake works it will sound to them as equally nonsensical. This technology is complicated, this article is targeted at an audience that understands the technology, not one that needs a "My first introduction to distributed computing"
- earnesti 3y ago
  TLS handshake actually makes sense for average programmers who understand basic cryptography. Ethereums problem is that it is a badly designed clusterfuck. The newer blockchains will likely take over.
  - Zetaphor 3y ago

PufPufPuf 3y ago

I wouldn't be surprised if all that was just a made up jargon and this was a joke article. But again, it's about blockchain, so the line is thin.

Zetaphor 3y ago
There's actually interesting technology being developed here in the areas of distributed computation and zero trust systems. The implementations of Zero Knowledge Proofs and ongoing work on ZK-SNARKS I personally find most fascinating. There's a lot more to this ecosystem than just speculation. At it's core is a distributed world computer but all anyone knows about is money.exe because this stuff is immensely complex. If you look into the researcher rather than paying attention to the soyjack youtube thumbnails you'll find the actual substance. Nobody is going do the work for you. Or you know, just write it all off with a snide joke because "crypto bad".
- talldayo 3y ago
  > At it's core is a distributed world computer but all anyone knows about is money.exe because this stuff is immensely complex. Alternatively, because the only way to use the aforementioned distributed world computer is to engage with money.exe and buy more CoinTokens. Imagine all the kids out there who will be delighted to learn a pay-per-use code interpreter. "Hey mom, I need your credit card to cover the gas while I debug my smart contract." But assuming you have the money to spend, it's a whole universe of possibilities! Just make sure to cash in before actually trying to use any of them.
  - Zetaphor 3y ago
    The problem with this statement is in assuming that any of this is actually ready for the average user, like a minor with their parents credit card. It's really unfortunate that the space received all of the attention it did during the pandemic, as that only managed to bring in misaligned expectations fueled by grifters making impossible claims. There are a number of planned upgrades on the roadmap[1], such as layer 2 blobs, that will eventually drive the cost per transaction closer to zero, however we're still a decade away from that being the case. In the meantime you can debug your smart contracts on a testnet for $0 [1] https://notes.ethereum.org/@domothy/roadmap https://notes.ethereum.org/@domothy/roadmap

monero-xmr 3y ago

The only reason it's foreign to you is because you are not familiar with any of the technology. It's no different that having no idea about LLMs or ML or transformers etc., or if you are not a programmer than being confused by arrays and recursion and TCP/IP...

Salgat 3y ago
Obviously, the whole point is to tease all this serious discussion over something that amounts to a toy with almost no practical application.

microtherion 3y ago

Yes, reading TFA left me quite unclear as to how many slurp juices per ape all this new technology translates into.