5 ms·

> Incarceration really isn't far from medieval punishments. Sincere question: in your ideal world, what would be done in this case? I, too, am dubious that 25

> Incarceration really isn't far from medieval punishments. Sincere question: in your ideal world, what would be done in this case? I, too, am dubious that 25 entire years serves justice. On the other hand, many victims' entire life savings wiped out, hard-working people impoverished. How do we deter or redeem, here? To answer my own question, in an ideal world, SBF would voluntarily work every day to pay everyone back.

freedomben 3y ago
> Sincere question: in your ideal world, what would be done in this case? Great question, and very hard. I don't really have a concrete answer, but generally speaking in my ideal world justice would focus on restoration to the victims. I concede that we may need some aspect of "punishment" to serve as a deterrent, but I think that punishment should benefit the victims, not the state. For example, stole $10k from somebody? Pay them back $25k. There should be no victimless crimes IMHO, and if "society" is the "victim" we should approach that one very skeptically and there should be very clear causation. For example, a dad who takes a few hits on a cannabis joint before bed is not "harming society" even though that has been the justification for draconian drug laws for decades. I also fully concede that real life is going to be a lot messier and more nuanced than what I've captured, and that such a system would require a large mindshift from society in addition to just systemic reform. It may take a while to get there. Disclaimer: If I actually had any ability to influence this I would want to spend a lot more time stuyding it and examining current research/science, and it's quite possible my opinion would adjust based on evidence.
- jamespo 3y ago
  I think part of the issue and what the judge didn't like is he doesn't seem to have any remorse.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    Sure, and that certainly means any rehabilitation would be harder, and we'd be right to be skeptical of the results of that rehabilitation (as in, is he just pretending to be rehabilitated).
tunesmith 3y ago
Ideally, a much higher-tech system would have highly tailored solutions for incapacitation, rehabilitation, and restoration. (There should be no considerations for "retribution".) I'm conflicted on whether incapacitation should continue only until rehabilitation is achieved, or also until restoration is completed. Prison is just a really blunt instrument for incapacitation, and sentences are a really blunt way to predict how long it would take to be rehabilitated.
- adolph 3y ago
  > Ideally, a much higher-tech system would have highly tailored solutions for incapacitation This is pretty interesting. If a person could be anesthetized for the entire sentence and then revived at the end of their period of incapacity, would that be acceptable?
  - tunesmith 3y ago
    Of course not, that would render rehabilitation impossible.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - rendall 3y ago
      I'm confused by your use of the word incapacitation here. You don't mean incarceration?
      - NamTaf 3y ago
        I interpreted it as literally “remove the capacity (to continue committing crime)”. Incarceration is one means of achieving that, but possibly not the only, and I feel like the OP was trying to draw that distinction. I don’t think they were meaning incapacitation as in rendered unconscious.
        3y ago
__loam 3y ago
SBF lost billions of dollars. How does one work to pay that all back, especially with his crap reputation?
- rendall 3y ago
  If I had the answer to that I'd be a billionaire.
- kelnos 3y ago
  The difficulty of doing so doesn't obviate the necessity of doing so. At worst, he works for the rest of his life with his wages heavily garnished. If he holds investments, he'd be required to liquidate and surrender some percentage of them periodically. Of course, someone in his position could just live off his parents and not play ball. So you'd need a contingency for that. Maybe prison still does have a place, but only for people who refuse to even try to make amends for what they did?

freedomben 3y ago

> Sincere question: in your ideal world, what would be done in this case? Great question, and very hard. I don't really have a concrete answer, but generally speaking in my ideal world justice would focus on restoration to the victims. I concede that we may need some aspect of "punishment" to serve as a deterrent, but I think that punishment should benefit the victims, not the state. For example, stole $10k from somebody? Pay them back $25k. There should be no victimless crimes IMHO, and if "society" is the "victim" we should approach that one very skeptically and there should be very clear causation. For example, a dad who takes a few hits on a cannabis joint before bed is not "harming society" even though that has been the justification for draconian drug laws for decades. I also fully concede that real life is going to be a lot messier and more nuanced than what I've captured, and that such a system would require a large mindshift from society in addition to just systemic reform. It may take a while to get there. Disclaimer: If I actually had any ability to influence this I would want to spend a lot more time stuyding it and examining current research/science, and it's quite possible my opinion would adjust based on evidence.

jamespo 3y ago
I think part of the issue and what the judge didn't like is he doesn't seem to have any remorse.
- kelnos 3y ago
  Sure, and that certainly means any rehabilitation would be harder, and we'd be right to be skeptical of the results of that rehabilitation (as in, is he just pretending to be rehabilitated).

tunesmith 3y ago

Ideally, a much higher-tech system would have highly tailored solutions for incapacitation, rehabilitation, and restoration. (There should be no considerations for "retribution".) I'm conflicted on whether incapacitation should continue only until rehabilitation is achieved, or also until restoration is completed. Prison is just a really blunt instrument for incapacitation, and sentences are a really blunt way to predict how long it would take to be rehabilitated.

adolph 3y ago
> Ideally, a much higher-tech system would have highly tailored solutions for incapacitation This is pretty interesting. If a person could be anesthetized for the entire sentence and then revived at the end of their period of incapacity, would that be acceptable?
- tunesmith 3y ago
  Of course not, that would render rehabilitation impossible.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - rendall 3y ago
    I'm confused by your use of the word incapacitation here. You don't mean incarceration?
    - NamTaf 3y ago
      I interpreted it as literally “remove the capacity (to continue committing crime)”. Incarceration is one means of achieving that, but possibly not the only, and I feel like the OP was trying to draw that distinction. I don’t think they were meaning incapacitation as in rendered unconscious.
      - 3y ago

__loam 3y ago

SBF lost billions of dollars. How does one work to pay that all back, especially with his crap reputation?

rendall 3y ago
If I had the answer to that I'd be a billionaire.
kelnos 3y ago
The difficulty of doing so doesn't obviate the necessity of doing so. At worst, he works for the rest of his life with his wages heavily garnished. If he holds investments, he'd be required to liquidate and surrender some percentage of them periodically. Of course, someone in his position could just live off his parents and not play ball. So you'd need a contingency for that. Maybe prison still does have a place, but only for people who refuse to even try to make amends for what they did?