7 ms·

Its main purpose is internet currency. The only serious uses surround that via smart contracts, like decentralized exchanges or provably fair gambling (unsavory

Its main purpose is internet currency. The only serious uses surround that via smart contracts, like decentralized exchanges or provably fair gambling (unsavory as that is). Any time someone says "the currency aspect is separate from blockchain," I'd be wary, seeing how the entire point of blockchain is decentralization via proof of work or stake. NFTs can make sense in theory as an alternative to the already-popular video game collectibles, as silly as that premise is, but they never really got traction, and again that's related to currency. There's been a lot of vaporware around things like corporate blockchains to track assets, which don't even make sense in theory.

ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
Are you using it as internet currency? I don't know anyone who paid anything with it in the last 12 months.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  Yes
- doublepg23 3y ago
  I’m using the Bitcoin Lightning Network to support podcasts every week or so. https://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/boost/ https://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/boost/
  - ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
    Interesting. Reading through the page, that sounds super complicated though. Couldn't the podcasts simply put a lightning invoice (Which is just a string of text I guess?) on their website with a text like "Support us via Lightning: 1f73ac220b9..."?
    - lawn 3y ago
      With a regular cryptocurrency they could just post an address or QR code and anyone can send it using a wallet at any time (no need for them to be online or anything).
      - doublepg23 3y ago
        Lightning allows single sats worth of micro-payments in real-time, perfect for tossing a few bucks someone's way vs. paying much higher fees and waiting for blocks. The Podcasting 2.0 spec also includes the "Boostgrams" feature allowing you to send messages to the creator with your payment. Speaking of offline support the recently announced Hedgehog protocol builds off of lightning and is much more asynchronous. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/super-testnet-introduces-hedgehog%3A-a-protocol-for-asynchronous-layer-2-bitcoin-payments https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/super-testnet-introduces-hed...
    - doublepg23 3y ago
      A lot of the work with Podcasting 2.0 is moving things into apps like Fountain or Castamatic. By all accounts, people are way way more likely to engage if they don't have to leave their app. There's crypto-less features that Podcasting 2.0 adds like livestream notifications and transcriptions. Apple actually just added transcriptions to their app officially!
      - ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
        What's wrong about the web for listening to podcasts? Why do I need an app? And couldn't the "Support us via lightning: 1f73ac220b9..." link have a protocol like "lightning://" prefixed, so when the users clicks it, their preferred payment method pops up?
        doublepg23 3y ago
        Actually the Podcasting 2.0 app Fountain does have a web app! https://www.fountain.fm/radio https://www.fountain.fm/radio By all accounts though (podcasting stats) people almost always listen to them on mobile devices, an app being the logical choice there. The hosted lightning wallet Alby does have similar functionality you're thinking of, it's built as a browser plugin though. https://getalby.com https://getalby.com
- maxcoder4 3y ago
  I use it everywhere where it's an option (so not very often, let's say once a month). I also only use privacy services (vpn for example) where you can pay using cryptocurrency, otherwise what's the point
  - ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
    What are some other examples, except for a VPN where you use crypto to pay? And how is the situation around the world - are retailers who offer digital goods/services allowed to accept crypto as payments?
    - hot_gril 3y ago
      There are hardly any retailers accepting it in the US. Wonder how it is in El Salvador, since they made BTC legal tender.
    - vernon99 3y ago
      In most of the places it’s trivial to exchange crypto for local currency in p2p fashion, often for cash.
    - teh_infallible 3y ago
      There was a sketchy looking file sharing website where someone had posted some incredibly hard to find audio tracks that I really wanted, but the website required a subscription. Paying with a cc meant automatically-recurring payments, but I paid with bitcoin, got my files, and knew the website couldn’t get any money from me after that.
- vernon99 3y ago
  I’ve been paying multiple people and teams remotely via btc in the past years. Even if you can send a wire, sometimes it can be cheaper/easier to send crypto. But in many cases it’s not even possible to send large amounts of money without incurring massive fees (international paypal, western union, etc). Moved hundeds of thousands of dollars this way by now for purely legal economical reasons, helping a bunch of people make money they would not make otherwise. Edit: relatedly, not everybody wants to pay their local taxes (and who am I to judge people in various life situations?). This itself is a _massive_ saver for the folks. Send somebody $5k usd a couple times and their bank will start asking complicated questions.
  - ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
    And how do you put the crypto payments into your tax reports?
    - bawolff 3y ago
      Seems pretty easy. My country's tax forms dont distinguish between how you got paid, just that you got paid. Gov doesn't care if it was through a bank, in gold bars, bitcoin, etc (capital gains they care more about of course)
dinobones 3y ago
The day a network exists where you can reliably send like $0.001 of value with little/no fees is the day the internet changes forever. So many ideas are infeasible right now because CC fees are high, and making any payment is extremely high friction.
- ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
  Even if you can send $1. Users dislike paying on the web because it is a security risk. Because of this insane system of credit cards, where you give the other party a "secret" which enables them to take the money from you. If you could just send the money, the barrier to pay would be 100x lower. Most websites pay the bills via ads. And make less than $0.001 per visitor. If they could sell a monthly membership for a one-time payment of $1, they would have a way better business model.
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    There are traditional ways to send money without giving out a secret, like Apple Pay. But there's plenty of fraud in the other direction, people accepting charges with stolen payment info that end up being reversed. It's always a little the merchant's job to decide whose "money is no good here," and that's because of laws.
    - ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
      Paying via Apple Pay means you have to pay Apple so that Apple will pay the vendor for you. How do you pay Apple without giving them a secret?
      - lxgr 3y ago
        No, that's not how it works at all. Apple is neither in the authorization nor the transaction clearing/settlement flow. > How do you pay Apple without giving them a secret? Credit cards being effectively unrestricted bearer tokens isn't nearly the only way to do payments. For example you could send a signed message to your bank instructing them to pay Apple (in a world in which you'd be paying them; again, Apple Pay is not that).
root_axis 3y ago
NFTs make absolutely no sense for video games collectables. As it is, video game collectables work just fine, NFTs add nothing except cost and complexity.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  If you want there to be a marketplace for your collectibles, NFTs are the most open way of doing that, and a lot is prebuilt.
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    Counter-strike had a market for collectibles well before?
    - hot_gril 3y ago
      It took work by a large parent company. And I don't know how third-party websites can trade those, but it must mean either Valve is managing an API or people are doing something hacky to work around that.
      - valzam 3y ago
        They can't. There are third party websites but there is no way for them to initiate trades. They work around this bysome crazy peer-to-peer trust-me-bro scheme.
        hot_gril 3y ago
        That's what I was expecting.
      - troupo 3y ago
        And the reason for that is simple: game collectibles literally cannot work in any game on any platform except the one they were designed for. There's a reason you can't bring your Fortnite skin into a Lord of the Rings game, and it has very little to do with "central companies" and "APIs"

ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago

Are you using it as internet currency? I don't know anyone who paid anything with it in the last 12 months.

hot_gril 3y ago
Yes
doublepg23 3y ago
I’m using the Bitcoin Lightning Network to support podcasts every week or so. https://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/boost/ https://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/boost/
- ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
  Interesting. Reading through the page, that sounds super complicated though. Couldn't the podcasts simply put a lightning invoice (Which is just a string of text I guess?) on their website with a text like "Support us via Lightning: 1f73ac220b9..."?
  - lawn 3y ago
    With a regular cryptocurrency they could just post an address or QR code and anyone can send it using a wallet at any time (no need for them to be online or anything).
    - doublepg23 3y ago
      Lightning allows single sats worth of micro-payments in real-time, perfect for tossing a few bucks someone's way vs. paying much higher fees and waiting for blocks. The Podcasting 2.0 spec also includes the "Boostgrams" feature allowing you to send messages to the creator with your payment. Speaking of offline support the recently announced Hedgehog protocol builds off of lightning and is much more asynchronous. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/super-testnet-introduces-hedgehog%3A-a-protocol-for-asynchronous-layer-2-bitcoin-payments https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/super-testnet-introduces-hed...
  - doublepg23 3y ago
    A lot of the work with Podcasting 2.0 is moving things into apps like Fountain or Castamatic. By all accounts, people are way way more likely to engage if they don't have to leave their app. There's crypto-less features that Podcasting 2.0 adds like livestream notifications and transcriptions. Apple actually just added transcriptions to their app officially!
    - ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
      What's wrong about the web for listening to podcasts? Why do I need an app? And couldn't the "Support us via lightning: 1f73ac220b9..." link have a protocol like "lightning://" prefixed, so when the users clicks it, their preferred payment method pops up?
      - doublepg23 3y ago
        Actually the Podcasting 2.0 app Fountain does have a web app! https://www.fountain.fm/radio https://www.fountain.fm/radio By all accounts though (podcasting stats) people almost always listen to them on mobile devices, an app being the logical choice there. The hosted lightning wallet Alby does have similar functionality you're thinking of, it's built as a browser plugin though. https://getalby.com https://getalby.com
maxcoder4 3y ago
I use it everywhere where it's an option (so not very often, let's say once a month). I also only use privacy services (vpn for example) where you can pay using cryptocurrency, otherwise what's the point
- ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
  What are some other examples, except for a VPN where you use crypto to pay? And how is the situation around the world - are retailers who offer digital goods/services allowed to accept crypto as payments?
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    There are hardly any retailers accepting it in the US. Wonder how it is in El Salvador, since they made BTC legal tender.
  - vernon99 3y ago
    In most of the places it’s trivial to exchange crypto for local currency in p2p fashion, often for cash.
  - teh_infallible 3y ago
    There was a sketchy looking file sharing website where someone had posted some incredibly hard to find audio tracks that I really wanted, but the website required a subscription. Paying with a cc meant automatically-recurring payments, but I paid with bitcoin, got my files, and knew the website couldn’t get any money from me after that.
vernon99 3y ago
I’ve been paying multiple people and teams remotely via btc in the past years. Even if you can send a wire, sometimes it can be cheaper/easier to send crypto. But in many cases it’s not even possible to send large amounts of money without incurring massive fees (international paypal, western union, etc). Moved hundeds of thousands of dollars this way by now for purely legal economical reasons, helping a bunch of people make money they would not make otherwise. Edit: relatedly, not everybody wants to pay their local taxes (and who am I to judge people in various life situations?). This itself is a _massive_ saver for the folks. Send somebody $5k usd a couple times and their bank will start asking complicated questions.
- ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
  And how do you put the crypto payments into your tax reports?
  - bawolff 3y ago
    Seems pretty easy. My country's tax forms dont distinguish between how you got paid, just that you got paid. Gov doesn't care if it was through a bank, in gold bars, bitcoin, etc (capital gains they care more about of course)

dinobones 3y ago

The day a network exists where you can reliably send like $0.001 of value with little/no fees is the day the internet changes forever. So many ideas are infeasible right now because CC fees are high, and making any payment is extremely high friction.

ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
Even if you can send $1. Users dislike paying on the web because it is a security risk. Because of this insane system of credit cards, where you give the other party a "secret" which enables them to take the money from you. If you could just send the money, the barrier to pay would be 100x lower. Most websites pay the bills via ads. And make less than $0.001 per visitor. If they could sell a monthly membership for a one-time payment of $1, they would have a way better business model.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  There are traditional ways to send money without giving out a secret, like Apple Pay. But there's plenty of fraud in the other direction, people accepting charges with stolen payment info that end up being reversed. It's always a little the merchant's job to decide whose "money is no good here," and that's because of laws.
  - ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
    Paying via Apple Pay means you have to pay Apple so that Apple will pay the vendor for you. How do you pay Apple without giving them a secret?
    - lxgr 3y ago
      No, that's not how it works at all. Apple is neither in the authorization nor the transaction clearing/settlement flow. > How do you pay Apple without giving them a secret? Credit cards being effectively unrestricted bearer tokens isn't nearly the only way to do payments. For example you could send a signed message to your bank instructing them to pay Apple (in a world in which you'd be paying them; again, Apple Pay is not that).

root_axis 3y ago

NFTs make absolutely no sense for video games collectables. As it is, video game collectables work just fine, NFTs add nothing except cost and complexity.

hot_gril 3y ago
If you want there to be a marketplace for your collectibles, NFTs are the most open way of doing that, and a lot is prebuilt.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  Counter-strike had a market for collectibles well before?
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    It took work by a large parent company. And I don't know how third-party websites can trade those, but it must mean either Valve is managing an API or people are doing something hacky to work around that.
    - valzam 3y ago
      They can't. There are third party websites but there is no way for them to initiate trades. They work around this bysome crazy peer-to-peer trust-me-bro scheme.
      - hot_gril 3y ago
        That's what I was expecting.
    - troupo 3y ago
      And the reason for that is simple: game collectibles literally cannot work in any game on any platform except the one they were designed for. There's a reason you can't bring your Fortnite skin into a Lord of the Rings game, and it has very little to do with "central companies" and "APIs"