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I really don't understand the severity of criminal justice system punishment. SBF got sentenced to 25 years for a white collar financial crime while a guy in my

I really don't understand the severity of criminal justice system punishment. SBF got sentenced to 25 years for a white collar financial crime while a guy in my hometown hit and killed 2 people, while DUI and ran over 100mph on a local street with 35mph limit got 26 months sentence forb2 vehicular homicide.

survirtual 3y ago
The money he stole and defrauded is lifetimes worth. Lifetimes of economics stolen from people. Lifetimes of stresses caused on people because of what he stole. How many people may have ended their lives because they lost everything? How many silenced voices are there in pain because of his fraud? White collar criminals can and should be likened to serial killers in the severity of their crimes. They spread invisible miseries indiscriminately, near entirely without justice or recognition. I am glad one of them is finally being properly punished.
bena 3y ago
Intent has a lot to do with it. SBF operated with forethought and malice. He intended to deceive people. He was trying to commit fraud. Hometown guy did not intend to crash or kill anybody. Now the results of hometown guy's actions were more direct and severe, but had he had the choice, he would not have crashed and killed anybody. He's not a criminal, just a fucking idiot.
- Aaargh20318 3y ago
  > SBF operated with forethought and malice. And hometown guy accidentally got behind the wheel of a car while drunk?
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
    A well-known effect of alcohol intoxication is cognitive impairment.
    - Aaargh20318 3y ago
      Yeah I don’t buy it. I suspect most DUI cases were conscious decisions made while sober. You don’t accidentally drive to a bar. You go there with plans to drink knowing full well you plan to drive back drunk. If you go out to drink, you don’t bring your car. If you know you need to drive later, you don’t drink. They might be drunk when they are driving, but they very much put themselves into a situation where it was the likely outcome while sober.
  - bena 3y ago
    You think he woke up that day and said to himself, "Today, I'm going to get drunk, drive my car, speed, crash, and kill two people." No. He did not. Everything that happened was likely unplanned. Hence, no forethought. And I doubt he was trying to hit anybody. Hence, no malice. Yes, he still made those choices and they were bad choices. So he does need to make restitution. But the fact that he wasn't intentionally trying to do what he did makes his offense different than SBF's. Now, is there an issue that our penal system is ultimately more punitive than rehabilitory? Of course, but even from a punitive standpoint, accidental murder should warrant less punishment than intentional large-scale multi-billion dollar fraud. We can't base punishments solely on the outcome of an event. Intent of the perpetrator has to matter.
z2 3y ago
Not that this holds up to scrutiny, and there are certainly issues with fungibility of lives and money, but let's say the value of a life in the US is $10 million. $10 billion in fraud is 1,000 lives claimed. The sentence could have been worse.
hgfghj 3y ago
Vehicular deaths are almost always under prosecuted in the US. This does not mean that it should be legal to defraud people of billions of dollars, ruin countless lives, and harm many more. This is a rare case where a white collar crime was appropriately punished. Sam showed no remorse, and no evidence that he would not engage in similar crimes in the future. He earned this time. Hopefully he’ll reform and be worthy of early release; but candidly I doubt it. I think he’s irredeemable.
Aaargh20318 3y ago
It’s simple really. Money is considered more important than human lives.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
publius_0xf3 3y ago
Motor crimes are punished leniently because almost everyone drives, and every driver can imagine themselves making a mistake behind the wheel and they don't want that mistake to ruin their life or the lives of their loved ones. I'm not saying it's right. But it's the tacit consensus we maintain to make ourselves comfortable with the risks of piloting deadly machines every day.
bdcravens 3y ago
White-collar criminals doing fed time are serving "easier" time than those in state prisons. That said, I've personally known of two people who were convicted of DWI vehicular manslaughter, and they both received 15-year sentences, so 26 months seems to be an aberration.
rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
>a guy in my hometown hit and killed 2 people, while DUI and ran over 100mph on a local street with 35mph limit What was his plan? What did he expect to earn from this action? And now, who would plan to DUI because they believe it's worth a 26-month sentence? SBF knew what we was doing and did it knowingly. He thought he wouldn't be caught and earn a few extra billions. Unless we was drunk all along… It's about the long-term planning and the clear intent to choose a path with such a risk/reward ratio.
doctorpangloss 3y ago
This was intriguing to me, so I want to share how I did some light investigation of the question. https://chat.openai.com/share/2dc83d60-d14b-4438-8226-ac59de452add https://chat.openai.com/share/2dc83d60-d14b-4438-8226-ac59de... I don't know if it can summarize books correctly always, it almost always does; and I also don't know if there's just a bias in publishing about race relations because that sells. But it seems right to me that the most orthodox opinion is that racial bias, drug policy and socioeconomic status are the biggest factors in the severity of sentencing in general. So you are referencing two acutely exceptional cases - a white collar crime by a rich person that only somewhat interacts with drug abuse of Aderrall that is acutely severely punished, and a drug-related crime that is acutely poorly punished.
FireBeyond 3y ago
There is a saying, "If you want to kill someone and get away with it, do it with a car".
- mrbonner 3y ago
  True but disturbing to hear

survirtual 3y ago

The money he stole and defrauded is lifetimes worth. Lifetimes of economics stolen from people. Lifetimes of stresses caused on people because of what he stole. How many people may have ended their lives because they lost everything? How many silenced voices are there in pain because of his fraud? White collar criminals can and should be likened to serial killers in the severity of their crimes. They spread invisible miseries indiscriminately, near entirely without justice or recognition. I am glad one of them is finally being properly punished.

bena 3y ago

Intent has a lot to do with it. SBF operated with forethought and malice. He intended to deceive people. He was trying to commit fraud. Hometown guy did not intend to crash or kill anybody. Now the results of hometown guy's actions were more direct and severe, but had he had the choice, he would not have crashed and killed anybody. He's not a criminal, just a fucking idiot.

Aaargh20318 3y ago
> SBF operated with forethought and malice. And hometown guy accidentally got behind the wheel of a car while drunk?
- rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
  A well-known effect of alcohol intoxication is cognitive impairment.
  - Aaargh20318 3y ago
    Yeah I don’t buy it. I suspect most DUI cases were conscious decisions made while sober. You don’t accidentally drive to a bar. You go there with plans to drink knowing full well you plan to drive back drunk. If you go out to drink, you don’t bring your car. If you know you need to drive later, you don’t drink. They might be drunk when they are driving, but they very much put themselves into a situation where it was the likely outcome while sober.
- bena 3y ago
  You think he woke up that day and said to himself, "Today, I'm going to get drunk, drive my car, speed, crash, and kill two people." No. He did not. Everything that happened was likely unplanned. Hence, no forethought. And I doubt he was trying to hit anybody. Hence, no malice. Yes, he still made those choices and they were bad choices. So he does need to make restitution. But the fact that he wasn't intentionally trying to do what he did makes his offense different than SBF's. Now, is there an issue that our penal system is ultimately more punitive than rehabilitory? Of course, but even from a punitive standpoint, accidental murder should warrant less punishment than intentional large-scale multi-billion dollar fraud. We can't base punishments solely on the outcome of an event. Intent of the perpetrator has to matter.

z2 3y ago

Not that this holds up to scrutiny, and there are certainly issues with fungibility of lives and money, but let's say the value of a life in the US is $10 million. $10 billion in fraud is 1,000 lives claimed. The sentence could have been worse.

hgfghj 3y ago

Vehicular deaths are almost always under prosecuted in the US. This does not mean that it should be legal to defraud people of billions of dollars, ruin countless lives, and harm many more. This is a rare case where a white collar crime was appropriately punished. Sam showed no remorse, and no evidence that he would not engage in similar crimes in the future. He earned this time. Hopefully he’ll reform and be worthy of early release; but candidly I doubt it. I think he’s irredeemable.

Aaargh20318 3y ago

It’s simple really. Money is considered more important than human lives.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

publius_0xf3 3y ago

Motor crimes are punished leniently because almost everyone drives, and every driver can imagine themselves making a mistake behind the wheel and they don't want that mistake to ruin their life or the lives of their loved ones. I'm not saying it's right. But it's the tacit consensus we maintain to make ourselves comfortable with the risks of piloting deadly machines every day.

bdcravens 3y ago

White-collar criminals doing fed time are serving "easier" time than those in state prisons. That said, I've personally known of two people who were convicted of DWI vehicular manslaughter, and they both received 15-year sentences, so 26 months seems to be an aberration.

rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago

>a guy in my hometown hit and killed 2 people, while DUI and ran over 100mph on a local street with 35mph limit What was his plan? What did he expect to earn from this action? And now, who would plan to DUI because they believe it's worth a 26-month sentence? SBF knew what we was doing and did it knowingly. He thought he wouldn't be caught and earn a few extra billions. Unless we was drunk all along… It's about the long-term planning and the clear intent to choose a path with such a risk/reward ratio.

doctorpangloss 3y ago

This was intriguing to me, so I want to share how I did some light investigation of the question. https://chat.openai.com/share/2dc83d60-d14b-4438-8226-ac59de452add https://chat.openai.com/share/2dc83d60-d14b-4438-8226-ac59de... I don't know if it can summarize books correctly always, it almost always does; and I also don't know if there's just a bias in publishing about race relations because that sells. But it seems right to me that the most orthodox opinion is that racial bias, drug policy and socioeconomic status are the biggest factors in the severity of sentencing in general. So you are referencing two acutely exceptional cases - a white collar crime by a rich person that only somewhat interacts with drug abuse of Aderrall that is acutely severely punished, and a drug-related crime that is acutely poorly punished.

FireBeyond 3y ago

There is a saying, "If you want to kill someone and get away with it, do it with a car".

mrbonner 3y ago
True but disturbing to hear