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Why do you think SBF requires 20-25 years to rehabilitate?
by lijok 3y ago
Why do you think SBF requires 20-25 years to rehabilitate?
- throwup238 3y agoWe don’t rehabilitate in this country.
- rootusrootus 3y ago"Won't someone please think of the poor criminals" is definitely a tough sell in the US.
- lo_zamoyski 3y agoCompassion for criminals who get what they deserve is false compassion. The victim is the proper object of compassion. The three purposes of punishment are retribution, rehabilitation, and deterrence. Him getting 25 years isn't undeserved.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- golergka 3y agoWhy do you think he will ever rehabilitate? Prison is not and shouldn't be about rehabilitation. It's society that requires to be less exposed to SBF, by 20-25 years.
- lijok 3y agoHe's a first-time non-violent offender. If that wasn't the case, I'd agree with you.
- tonightstoast 3y agoFirst-time sentenced for crimes against 1000s of people.
- tombert 3y agoEveryone keeps repeating "first time offender", but I think that term is kind of misleading. If I stole exactly one empty car exactly one time, then yes, I'd be a first time offender in the sense everyone thinks it. If I stole a thousand empty cars, and only got caught after the 999th, then sure, legally I'd be a "first time offender", but I would have still committed the crime a thousand times. This wasn't a one-time clerical error that he failed to report. This was an intentional bit of theft that kept going for years. It's really not a "first time offense", and I don't think it's fair to categorize it as such.
- khazhoux 3y agoMy client has never stolen billions before. Mercy, your honor!
- anon291 3y agoIf you commit ten robberies before you're caught are you a first time offender? What vapid logic
- lijok 3y agoVapid logic and yet you were stimulated enough to reply. "Habitual offender" has an actual legal definition in most countries that does not align with your views.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- pzo 3y agoPunishment should be good enough deterrent for others. Otherwise it would be worth for someone to consider to commit a first time non-violent crime to steal e.g. $10m and get 5 years sentence, suck it up (or even commit such crime in country that has good prisons like nordic countries) and then enjoy retirement after still being young (after hiding your cash loot). Most people will never earn such money during 5 years and many will never earn during lifetime.
- dctoedt 3y ago> Punishment should be good enough deterrent for others. On that subject: The Russians seem to have leaked videos of the accused ISIS terrorists being tortured: "Though the goriest clips were not shown on state television, the brutal treatment of the defendants was made clear. And the decision by the Russian authorities to showcase it so publicly in court, in a way they had almost never done before, was intended as a sign of revenge and a warning to potential terrorists, analysts said." [0] Will it work? Doubtful, because: 1. We should never underestimate the human susceptibility to overconfidence — and to rationalizing away warnings from past experience: "Well, when I do it, I won't make their mistakes." (Cf. the first chapter of The Right Stuff, describing several episodes in which a military test pilot gets killed in a crash; with each fatal crash, the dead pilot's colleagues think, How could he have been so stupid? I'd have never done [fill in action]. Yeah, right ....) 2. Plus: That sort of thing just motivates the real fanatics to escalate the cycle of revenge and punishment. (I'm rereading Barbara Tuchman's The Guns of August; she describes how WWI started out in somewhat the same way.) [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/26/world/europe/russia-terror-attack-torture.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/26/world/europe/russia-terro...
- pzo 3y agoI don't see any much how this is related. I remember in a book "The (Honest) Truth About Dishonesty: How We Lie To Everyone — Especially Ourselves" There was a quote something like "We don't lock our doors because we are afraid of people stealing, we lock our doors because it is an easy way to take away the temptation to steal from a lot of people who would otherwise be honest" Very good book and it showed via study that there is some threshold where at one point more people would be dishonest. It there would be completely no punishment for any stealing (even if non-voilent) I'm pretty sure more people would consider stealing. TLDR; the idea of a punishment is not to completely prevent such behavior in the future in society but to reduce such behavior across whole society.
- tombert 3y agoI don't even normally believe in "punishment" because I don't actually think it works. I think SBF will spend 20-25 years in prison, continuously blaming every human on earth except himself the entire time. If he thought what he was doing was wrong, he wouldn't have continued to do it for so long. That said, I also have no reason to think that if he's not locked away, he won't just do the same or similar scam again. He hasn't shown any remorse, and he just pretends to be ignorant of all the crimes. If not put into jail, I suspect he'd just go to a country with difficult extradition laws and do some other cryptocurrency scam from there. Putting him in jail for 20 years at least avoids it for 20 years.
- lo_zamoyski 3y agoPunishment does work. What do you imagine instead? Nothing? Quoting [0]: First, that punishment has three purposes – retribution, rehabilitation, and deterrence – does not entail that each of these purposes must be realized in a given act of punishment in order for that act to be morally legitimate. For example, we may justly imprison a recidivist thief even if we know from experience that he is extremely unlikely to change his ways as a result of his imprisonment and even if circumstances make it unlikely that his particular imprisonment will deter other thieves. Similarly, the fact that a given act of capital punishment may not fulfill all of the ends of punishment does not by itself suffice to make that act morally illegitimate. Second, while there is obviously a sense in which capital punishment can prevent rehabilitation, there is also a sense in which it actually facilitates rehabilitation. How so? Consider first that a wrongdoer cannot truly be rehabilitated until he comes to acknowledge the gravity of his offense. But the gravity of an offense is more manifest when the punishments for that offense reflect its gravity – that is to say, when the principle of proportionality is respected. A society in which armed robbery was regularly punished with at most a small fine would be a society in which armed robbers would have greater difficulty coming to see the seriousness of their crimes, and in which they would for that reason be less likely to be rehabilitated. Similarly, a society in which even the most sadistic serial murderers are given the same punishments as bank robbers is going to be a society in which sadistic serial murderers will have greater difficulty in coming to see the seriousness of their crimes, and thus will be less likely to be rehabilitated. [0] https://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2011/10/on-rehabilitation-and-execution.html https://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2011/10/on-rehabilitation-a...
- KingLancelot 3y ago[dead]
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y agoYou think he can be rehabilitated? By American prisons? Seriously? Look around; that didn’t happen.
- dilyevsky 3y agoIncarceration is not only about rehabilitation, it’s also about justice and deterrence
- tombert 3y agoI don't know that it will actually "deter" anyone, I think most criminals think they're not going to get caught, but I think it comes down to the much simpler "it's hard to commit more fraud when you're in prison". I'm not going to say it's impossible, maybe he could be managing this big crypto empire from jail, but it would certainly be harder to do all that from prison.
- dilyevsky 3y agoprofessional criminals absolutely think about what’s getting prosecuted and how much hard time you’re looking at. It’s a business to them so it becomes just a part of the risk equation. For the “isolation from society” i think it’s the least compelling part of lengthy incarceration. You can probably achieve the same effect with just house arrest and other such restrictions
- tombert 3y agoThey tried that with Sam Bankman Fried and he broke the terms of his house arrest almost immediately.
- bennyhill 3y agoI believe he will immediately start new scams and rope in fool me twice grade investors and be very effective if he has a nice WFH environment instead of the filtered mail and computer with no network kind of an environment. He probably is a higher risk of racking up 25 more years every 18 months than a shank specialist.
- tombert 3y agoThat's the thing; I think a lot of the violent offenders who steal money in prison are often just desperate people. They never had a lot of money, so they mug someone and steal the wallet and car of someone that they think is better off with the hope of actually having money. It's still wrong, I don't support it, but it's at least a much more sympathetic action. People like Sam Bankman Fried are much harder for me to feel bad over. He was never struggling to pay rent or having to worry about not being able to afford groceries next month. He was already well off, and just decided to gamble with other (poorer) people's money because he wanted more money. This means, to me, that this was a more cold and calculated thing, not something out of desperation or frustration, just greed. Robbing someone that you think is rich is bad. Robbing someone you think is poor is something supervillains do. If he's already been able to square that circle once, I see no reason that he wouldn't be able to do it again. Forgive me for not crying over how he might actually have to pay consequences for his actions.
- tptacek 3y agoRehabilitation simply isn't the only purpose of incarceration.
- plandis 3y agoHe’s shown no remorse. He could continue to show no remorse and be out in 25 years, no rehabilitation necessary.
- lo_zamoyski 3y agoWhy do you think punishment is only about rehabilitation? Punishment has three purposes, namely, retribution, rehabilitation, and deterrence. I also don't know how much rehabilitation actually occurs in our prisons. From what I understand, not much.
- _heimdall 3y agoThe better question is likely why anyone thinks the US justice system is actually about rehabilitation.